Filling the hollow base of a sabot slug with wax or glue

[JeepsAndGuns]

I seem to remember seeing somewhere online, where someone (or many people) were talking about filling the hollow base of a 12GA home cast (lee key drive or lyman) sabot slug with wax or hot glue. The idea was that it would help keep the wad from getting pushed up into the hollow base of the slug and causing it to stick in the base of the slug, which would then cause bad accuracy.
I have been shooting some slugs I have been casting at home using a russian made slug mold that is a copy of the lyman sabot slug, but the mold came with 4 different inserts for the base to change the size/depth of the hollow base, making the slug different weights. The slugs I have cast weigh 428 gr, 462 gr, 494 gr, and 520 gr. This is with the mix of lead I have that includes old shot, scrap, wheel weights, lino type, pure lead, etc.. It is just a random mix.
Anyways I have been having really good results with all these slugs and am very happy with the mold. However I do find some of the wads on the ground and can see where most of them always show signs of getting push up into the hollow base.
I have used both a WT12 wad (same as a WAA12) and a downrange clone of the older WAA12F114. With the WT12 wads, I just push them in and crimp. With the WAA12F114 being a slightly longer shot cup, I can place a 20GA 1/8in felt under it to get a good crimp.
When I shoot the ones with the felt under the slug, there is slightly less noticeable deforming of the wad into the base of the slug, but it is still present. I have come to prefer the loads using the WAA12F114 wads just for this reason. I can not fit one of the felts in the WT12 wad and get a proper crimp (it is domed)

I feel like if I can stop the wad from pushing into the base (or reduce it), accuracy may improve slightly. Not that these loads/slugs are not accurate(by my standards anyways), I just always seek for better accuracy in everything I shoot.
This takes me back to the original question. Filling the base with either wax or hot glue. Seems like this would give a better more flat area for the wad to push against.
I remember reading that it does not add enough weight to the slugs to make any significance difference in the pressures. When I try to search for this online, all I get is stuff about people making slugs out of wax or glue, but I can not seem to find where people are filling the base of lead slugs with the wax or glue. I have seen a couple thread on here this morning with passing mentions of doing this, but no specific discussions about it.
So who has/does it and what was your results? Do you prefer wax or hot glue, and why?
Thanks.

To answer a couple questions I am sure I will get.
For the 428, 462, and 494 grain slugs, I have been using data for 1-1/8 oz shot. For the 520gr slug, my lyman manual had data for the lyman 525gr slug, but I only have 1 of the powders they list, and accuracy was not great. So I have been using data for 1-1/4 oz shot with some HS6 and longshot and been getting much better results.

I have all but stopped using the lee key drive slug (it is the one ounce version) after I started using the russian copy of the lyman sabot slug.
With the lee, I was using a load made for 1-1/8 shot and a WT12 wad (same as WAA12). I had to add a 1/4 inch felt wad under it to get a crimp that was not dished in, because of how short the slug is. Accuracy was not bad, but not great.
The lyman sabot slug copy, I can use the lighter versions of it with 1-1/8 load data and the same WT12 wad, but there is not enough room to place a felt under it, as it takes up the whole space in the shot cup. However it still has slightly better accuracy than the lee.
I have been using 1-1/4 oz load data with the 520gr slug and been using the downrange WAA12F114 clone wad. On that one I can place a 1/8 felt under the slug and get a perfect crimp. However I still get wads that show that they are getting pushed into the base.
I did just find data in my lyman manual for 1-1/8 field load using longshot and a WAA12F114. I tried that with the 494gr slugs and since it was the longer shot cup wad, I would use a 1/8in felt under it. I got the best accuracy yet with them.

I can not imagine that with as dense and heavy as lead is, and as light and less dense as wax is, that it could add a significant enough amount of weight to effect pressures.

[centershot]

JeepsnGuns,
Welcome to the forum! It appears that you've been very busy experimenting with your loads, keep it up! Remember, accuracy is a small hole, into which one pours time and money. Lots of both, sometimes.

To answer your question, hot glue is easier and less messy than handling molten wax. Fill the cavity and scrape off any excess with a knife or popsicle stick while it is still soft. Buy the long sticks in bulk if you shoot a lot!

[longbow]

I don't have that mould but do use filler in all HB slug cavities.

I started out with the Lyman Foster slug cast from soft lead and loaded to Lyman manual recipe. Accuracy was horrible, wads often blew into the cavity and skirts collapsed.

I took to filling cavities with cornmeal and masking tape "cap".

I gave up on that slug quickly but found that all soft lead hollow base slugs showed collapsed skirts when slugs were recovered so I started filling with hot melt glue. No more skirt collapse and no more wads blown into skirts.

Many here fill with hot melt glue, wax, silicone caulk or other.

Here is a good thread by Hogtamer on filling and shooting Lyman 525 gr. sabot slugs:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...highlight=glue

I don't recall if Hogtamer says it there but he over fills due to shrinkage then uses a warmed utility knife to cut off the excess later leaving a clean flat base.

Filling is good!

Longbow

[Winger Ed.]

It seems like pouring wax off a burning candle would be a quick way to get your filler in the base.

[toallmy]

I gave the hot glue a try but some of them when fired retained the hot glue plug while some disappear or stuck to the wad , so I have reduced the loads enough to not destroy the wads when fired without filling the base . This has helped my groups , but at the cost of velocity .

[6pt-sika]

I’ve used both hot glue gun and a burning candle . Both work adequately. But I thought the hot glue was quicker . As to the base retaining the glue/wax I couldn’t care less if the filler stays in as long as the slug flies true . As usual my parameters in this most likely aren’t as stringent as most . I use these in smoothbore double barrels and usually target them at 25-30 yards . So I’m quite sure the retention part isn’t anywhere near as effectual to me as it is to a guy with a rifled barrel shooting paper at 100 yards .

[smokeeter]

Ok here goes, here's how I load these slug loads. It's not the only way and maybe not the best way but it's how I do it and I've had pretty good success with it. I don't have a roll crimp (yet ) I wanted to see if these would even shoot so I used the crimp on my shotshell loader and it works well enough for now.
I am using recommended lyman loads which calls for Winchester components which are now obsolete (but I did have some old supplies that I'm using).
First step was to weigh the slugs and group them together, to try to obtain the best accuracy available.
I then shaved some paraffin wax with a utility knife and melted the shavings in a spoon over a lit candle and melted the wax, I then poured the wax into the hollow base of the slug. Then I trimmed the excess wax with the utility knife once the wax hardened.
This charge left the height in the hull too low so I made some cardboard wads to bring the powder column up to the correct height. I used some dense cardboard and punched the discs out with a 5/8 hole punch that produced a disc that fit perfectly in the AA wad base.
I find the wax to be easier and less expensive than hot glue or epoxy.
These pics show the use of use of 571 powder which all I had on hand initially I'm now using Herco with good results
Here are a few pics of the process.

[longbow]

I should add that the Lyman slug has a very tapered hollow cavity so yes, glue may not stick well if the slugs are cold when the glue plug is put in. Pre-heating the slugs should help with that or I have read that roughing up the interior of the cavity works too.

I was adding glue tailwads to Lee slugs and even with the drive key some of the glue wads didn't hold. My solution there was to use a punch to flare/burr the drive key before adding glue. Some other slugs I drill and put a wood screw part way in then fill with glue. That works positively but is more time and effort to do.

I've shot some flat based slugs with screws and attached glue tailwads through trees up to 8" diameter and the tailwad has survived and remained attached. Hot melt glue is light and tough! It doesn't stick well to cold metal though.

Oh, if you find the glue sticking to the wad just gently tumble a bunch of slugs with glue fill/tailwads in baby powder in a plastic bag. The talcum powder will coat them and keep the glue from sticking to anything else. And they smell good after!

Longbow

[JeepsAndGuns]

I spent most of the morning casting about 100-125 more slugs to have fun with.
I do not have a hot glue gun, but I did have some white unscented tea light candles laying around. I melted one with a torch and poured the bases full on about 10 slugs for testing. 5 of the heavy slugs, and 5 of the 2nd to heavy slug.
I poured the wax just high of the base and after cooling, the centers shrunk a good bit, leaving a good funnel shaped divot. So the wax might not be ideal, or just cheap unknown wax (they are walmart brand). I used a razor and trimmed the wax flush.
I filled the base of the heavy slug and it added roughly 8 grains of weight. The 2nd to heaviest slug, (having a slightly larger hollow base) added roughly 10 grains of weight.
I plan on loading up 5 of each with the wax filled and non filled of each weight and then comparing the groups. If I see a noticeable improvement, I may pick up a hot glue gun.

[a danl]

I seem to remember seeing somewhere online, where someone (or many people) were talking about filling the hollow base of a 12GA home cast (lee key drive or lyman) sabot slug with wax or hot glue. The idea was that it would help keep the wad from getting pushed up into the hollow base of the slug and causing it to stick in the base of the slug, which would then cause bad accuracy.
I have been shooting some slugs I have been casting at home using a russian made slug mold that is a copy of the lyman sabot slug, but the mold came with 4 different inserts for the base to change the size/depth of the hollow base, making the slug different weights. The slugs I have cast weigh 428 gr, 462 gr, 494 gr, and 520 gr. This is with the mix of lead I have that includes old shot, scrap, wheel weights, lino type, pure lead, etc.. It is just a random mix.
Anyways I have been having really good results with all these slugs and am very happy with the mold. However I do find some of the wads on the ground and can see where most of them always show signs of getting push up into the hollow base.
I have used both a WT12 wad (same as a WAA12) and a downrange clone of the older WAA12F114. With the WT12 wads, I just push them in and crimp. With the WAA12F114 being a slightly longer shot cup, I can place a 20GA 1/8in felt under it to get a good crimp.
When I shoot the ones with the felt under the slug, there is slightly less noticeable deforming of the wad into the base of the slug, but it is still present. I have come to prefer the loads using the WAA12F114 wads just for this reason. I can not fit one of the felts in the WT12 wad and get a proper crimp (it is domed)

I feel like if I can stop the wad from pushing into the base (or reduce it), accuracy may improve slightly. Not that these loads/slugs are not accurate(by my standards anyways), I just always seek for better accuracy in everything I shoot.
This takes me back to the original question. Filling the base with either wax or hot glue. Seems like this would give a better more flat area for the wad to push against.
I remember reading that it does not add enough weight to the slugs to make any significance difference in the pressures. When I try to search for this online, all I get is stuff about people making slugs out of wax or glue, but I can not seem to find where people are filling the base of lead slugs with the wax or glue. I have seen a couple thread on here this morning with passing mentions of doing this, but no specific discussions about it.
So who has/does it and what was your results? Do you prefer wax or hot glue, and why?
Thanks.

To answer a couple questions I am sure I will get.
For the 428, 462, and 494 grain slugs, I have been using data for 1-1/8 oz shot. For the 520gr slug, my lyman manual had data for the lyman 525gr slug, but I only have 1 of the powders they list, and accuracy was not great. So I have been using data for 1-1/4 oz shot with some HS6 and longshot and been getting much better results.

I have all but stopped using the lee key drive slug (it is the one ounce version) after I started using the russian copy of the lyman sabot slug.
With the lee, I was using a load made for 1-1/8 shot and a WT12 wad (same as WAA12). I had to add a 1/4 inch felt wad under it to get a crimp that was not dished in, because of how short the slug is. Accuracy was not bad, but not great.
The lyman sabot slug copy, I can use the lighter versions of it with 1-1/8 load data and the same WT12 wad, but there is not enough room to place a felt under it, as it takes up the whole space in the shot cup. However it still has slightly better accuracy than the lee.
I have been using 1-1/4 oz load data with the 520gr slug and been using the downrange WAA12F114 clone wad. On that one I can place a 1/8 felt under the slug and get a perfect crimp. However I still get wads that show that they are getting pushed into the base.
I did just find data in my lyman manual for 1-1/8 field load using longshot and a WAA12F114. I tried that with the 494gr slugs and since it was the longer shot cup wad, I would use a 1/8in felt under it. I got the best accuracy yet with them.

I can not imagine that with as dense and heavy as lead is, and as light and less dense as wax is, that it could add a significant enough amount of weight to effect pressures.

i have been filing foster slugs with bees wax. i use a weller soldering gun to melt the wax from a a larger block of wax and let it drip into the slug until full then i stick the tip of the weller into the wax in the slug and reheat it until the wax solders itself to the lead. you can see when it happens because it's just like soldering a copper pipe. then i work the base of the slug on a flat surface until it is level with the slug itself. when loading you can either place an overshot card under the slug or coat the underside with a bit of mica lube. that's all to keep any larger wad from sticking to the slug and traveling along with it. hope this might help, it works for me.

[Hogtamer]

The glue guns are very inexpensive and work great. Definitely will protect the wad shotcup base.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Many of the guys shooting minie ball in the British Snider rifle plug the cavity with drywall filler. Probably the cheapest solution...

[centershot]

Many of the guys shooting minie ball in the British Snider rifle plug the cavity with drywall filler. Probably the cheapest solution...

Drywall filler! I never thought of that one! Man I love this site!

[a danl]

Drywall filler! I never thought of that one! Man I love this site!

i have even used old coffee grounds. they pack really tight and stay in place

[JeepsAndGuns]

Well to update. I loaded 5 each of the 520gr slugs with no wax, and with wax. Did the same for the 494gr slugs.
Shooting like I always do, standing, unsupported at 25 yards.
The 520gr slug the group size with the wax was 3/4 of a inch smaller.
The 494 gr slug, the group was 1-1/4 inch smaller.
So there does appear to be a noticeable difference!

I looked and looked and looked, and just when I did not think I was going to find any of the wads, I finally found a few. (too many leaves, should have blew off the range).
I found a couple with the normal signs of getting pushed into the base, and then found a couple with no signs of getting pushed into the base at all. Just smooth and flat looking.
I know they are my wads because of the color, and also the fact that the range is my own personal range on my own property (no one but me shoots there).

Now that I have seen a noticeable improvement, I am going to start delving into it a little more. I am going to pick up a hot glue gun for cheap and give it a try.
When I was pushing the slugs into the hulls, I had a few where the wax fell out and I had to push it back in. So the wax is not sticking very good. Maybe the hot glue will work better.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Many of the guys shooting minie ball in the British Snider rifle plug the cavity with drywall filler. Probably the cheapest solution...

Interesting, I may give that a try too.

[smokeeter]

I too have had better accuracy with the 525 slugs ( bases filled). and I have had the wax stay intact even after impact.

Got out to shoot these the other day, wads held together nicely (no blown wads) and slugs expanded good too. The wax stayed intact in the slug base.

[longbow]

I'll add another observation confirmed again I think yesterday. This is a bit beyond just just filling the cavity and goes to extended attached wad.

I have recovered wads used for both filled cavity and extended attached wads using hot melt glue.

Some recovered slugs show slight flairing of the bottom edge of the skirt and many recovered wads show neatly cut petal or petals usually one or two petals have a clear cut line.

These are wad slugs and cast from ACWW.

Flexible filler will act hydraulically when compressed. So while keeping the skirt from collapsing which is good, the skirt can flair under certain conditions so some thing to watch for.

I suspect that is why the Lyman sabot sabot slug has a beveled trailing edge. Normally when cast from soft lead the skirt expands and collapses to fill the wad from what I have seen.

Longbow

[JeepsAndGuns]

I stopped by hobby lobby today and grabbed a cheap hot glue gun. I filled a few and weighed them. The glue added the same amount of weight as the wax.
Gonna let them set up till tomorrow and see if the glue will fall out of any of them, just out of curiosity.
It was definitely easier to fill them with the glue gun than trying to pour the wax. So far there does not appear to be any shrinkage like there was with the wax.

[NavyGuns45]

I have done many lyman 525s this way. I use hi-temp hot glue and slightly over-fill them all and let them cool completely. This takes care of the shrinkage issue. Then I come back and remelt just the end of the plug with a mini propane pencil torch and then flip it over and push it down hard on a flat aluminum plate so the excess oozes out and I get a completely flat, square bottom. The aluminum plate has been sanded ultra smooth to avoid sticking - I still spray it with Pam cooking spray before I start working to help. After the excess hot glue has cooled, I just peel it off the slug. If you don't start with too much excess, you don't have a lot to peel off. And I powder them with talc to avoid anything sticking to the wads. I tried doing it all in one go (fill and strike off excess) but when it cooled, it would pull a dimple into the end which I worried would imbalance the slug with my rifled barrel. Since I loaded up 200 last time around, I still have a lot to use so I won't be making more any time soon. My H&R Ultra shoots 1.25" groups at 100 yards off a rest with this load (Lyman manual, 3" Rem hulls, blue dot powder). It has killed a lot of deer.