Switching lubes

[PBSmith]

Shooting a S&W 10 with tumble-lubed solid wadcutters and getting decent results but want to try stick-lubes through my Lyman 45 sizer/lubricator.

Somewhere - probably here - I've read how to go about prepping or conditioning the bore when changing lubes. Searched and found nothing.

What is the bore-prep procedure for making the lube switch that will require the least number of shots with the new lube to get it working its best? Given the primer availability problem, I'd rather not waste any in "breaking in" the bore to the different lube.

Look forward to your suggestions.
PBSmith

[Mk42gunner]

I'd clean the bore and start shooting, but then I'm more of a plinker than a serious bullseye competitor with revolvers these days.

What lube are you thinking of trying? I've had good luck with a home brewed batch of FWFL for most cast boolit uses. I have started to tumble lube with BLL for both .38 Special WC and .32 S&W Long use though.

Robert

[Winger Ed.]

I'd just clean the bore like I normally do when I get back from shooting, and rock on.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I can't imagine you are gonna see anything measurable (accuracywise) with a Lube switch in a handgun like the Mod 10, shooting it at typical handgun distances ...unless you are shooting 100 yd groups?

When the Lube guru's were doing lube testing (for Rifle loads), I believe they'd clean the barrel and leave as little residue/oil/lube in the bore as possible, and then shoot 10 foul shots to 'season' the barrel, when switching from one lube to another.

[rintinglen]

Back when Gearnasher and his amigos were extensively investigating lubes for use in rifles, I recall them seasoning the bore by firing 10 fouling shots after thoroughly cleaning the barrel. They were looking at a variety of parameters, and testing at various temperatures and tweaking formulas for hot and cold weather. They did a lot of good research and much of it is still available in the boolit lube threads here at Castboolits.

However, you are not going to see any significant difference in a Model 10. They were looking at fractional MOA differences at 100 yards. You may find that restricting lube to one lube groove improves group size. But you'll have to be a darned good shot to prove it .

[zarrinvz24]

I remember following these threads as well, and it was filed away under the "rifle only" section of my brain. Given the many other factors involved in cast projectiles in rifle cartridges, it seems that the attention to detail could be better expended in other areas of the reloading process. FWIW, I would probably take 1 or 2 shots before measuring for groups in a freshly cleaned barrel.

[Green Frog]

IMHO, the preceding three posters got it right... if you start with a clean bore you’ll have no cross contamination between lubes, and a few rounds (I’d probably lean toward 3-5 as being sufficient) to “season the bore” by leaving a trace coating of the “new” lube, and you should be good to go. The one exception to this would be after using one of the molybdenum based lubes. They are, from reports I have read, more difficult to get out of the bore, so extra enthusiastic cleaning my be necessary when changing from these.

The foregoing apply to rifle and pistol barrels both, but are apparently more noticeable with rifle barrels (due to the bullet being in contact with the bore for a longer period??) than in shorter handgun lengths. I would definitely feel safe giving my K frame Smiths a quick cleaning with a good bore solvent and doing a quick few fouling shots.

Froggie

[ABJ]

Myself and some other "Bullseye" shooters did several lube test in a model 10 as well as 1911's with Kart and colt barrels. The model 10 with Magma 148 DEWC seated flush and Lee 148 BNWC crimped in the groove. The 45's we used H&G 68-200 from Magma molds.
Long story short, no need to clean the barrel, just fire 7 to 10 shots to recondition the bore to the new lube and test for accuracy. We fired 10. The 38 wc's were the least affected by different lubes vs the 45. The Colt barrels were the most affected by a lube change.
Having said all that, if you can shoot a five shot group, slow fire at 25 yds and hold the 10 ring on a pistol repair center, then the lube might make a difference otherwise any good quality lube should be fine. We use White Label Carnuba red-160 in hot weather and regular Carnuba red in cold weather. You might be able to home brew a better lube but for what Glen charges why bother.
Tony

[Piedmont]

I too think what ABJ suggests will work fine if you don't want to waste ammo. Apparently how much shooting a gun needs to settle down after a lube change varies from firearm to firearm. If I were going to do rest shooting to test the accuracy with the new lube I would do so later in the session to make sure the load settled down.

[PBSmith]

Thanks all for your responses.

I don't recall saying anything about switching lubes in hopes of improving accuracy. There could be several reasons for wanting to switch lubes. My interest for doing so is to simplify and speed up the size/lube operation.

I believe the the old thread or article I referred to might have been written by Ed Harris in one of his excellent contributions to the Grant Cunningham website.

Good Turkey to everyone.

[Outpost75]

Clean the barrel in the normal way with your favorite cleaner. Remove most of the cleaner with one dry patch, leaving bore slightly wet. Rub second dry patch with your new lube. Thoroughly scrub barrel and charge holes of cylinder with the lube patch, ten strokes up and back, then remove most of the lube deposit repeating with clean, dry patch ten strokes.

Then go shoot. No foulers needed. Works for rifles too.

[PBSmith]

Clean the barrel in the normal way with your favorite cleaner. Remove most of the cleaner with one dry patch, leaving bore slightly wet. Rub second dry patch with your new lube. Thoroughly scrub barrel and charge holes of cylinder with the lube patch, ten strokes up and back, then remove most of the lube deposit repeating with clean, dry patch ten strokes.

Then go shoot. No foulers needed. Works for rifles too.

This is the operation I recalled from earlier reading. Thanks for posting it here.

[carelesslove]

PBSmith, carelesslove here !

A couple of years ago, I had a bad experience with a "name brand" bullet lube rocking up my LYMAN 4500 lubersizer. I did a lot of cleaning to get the old stuff out, but switched to LBT Soft Blue Bullet lube. I now have it in my LYMAN 4500 and SAECO lubersizers and shoot it in all my revolvers, from .38 Special, through .500 S&W, with excellent results.

Prior to shooting any bullets with the new lube, I did a thorough cleaning - much like the great advice from Outpost75. After what I thought was a thorough cleaning, I wet all bullet contact surfaces with CRC Brake Cleaner and ran a clean patch through the cylinder & bore and got a fresh batch of new, black gunk. After doing this, I was concerned with what might happen when firing a fresh, cast bullet, so I "loaded" a clean patch with his LBT Soft Blue, by rubbing it between my thumb & fingers. I pushed this through the cylinder holes and the bore and then tried to make my guns lead.

This, like everything Veral Smith ever told me to do, WORKED! Perhaps, his best piece of advice was to not clean the gun(s) anymore. Wipe them down, to prevent rust by fingerprints, but no bore, or cylinder cleaning.

To date, this has proven to be very effective, but hard to comply with - as I am a chronic gun cleaner - with cleaning habits nearing 50 years in practice. Admittedly, I only do this with stainless guns, but will probably do this with the blued guns, because I have great consistency between first (cold) and last (hot) shots - proven by chronograph.

Good luck with your own "experiments".

Tom "carelesslove" Love

[megasupermagnum]

Thanks all for your responses.

I don't recall saying anything about switching lubes in hopes of improving accuracy. There could be several reasons for wanting to switch lubes. My interest for doing so is to simplify and speed up the size/lube operation.

I believe the the old thread or article I referred to might have been written by Ed Harris in one of his excellent contributions to the Grant Cunningham website.

Good Turkey to everyone.

If speeding up the process is the goal, then ditch the Lyman 45, not the tumble lube. Buy a Lee bushing sizer.

To answer your question, in my lube testing, 5 shots after a clean bore is enough to foul the bore. 10 shots just to be safe.

[FISH4BUGS]

My guess is that the guns, regardless of lube, are capable of shooting far better than a human with an offhand hold can.
I'm not sure it makes a hill of beans difference.

[tazman]

Shooting a S&W 10 with tumble-lubed solid wadcutters and getting decent results but want to try stick-lubes through my Lyman 45 sizer/lubricator.

Somewhere - probably here - I've read how to go about prepping or conditioning the bore when changing lubes. Searched and found nothing.

What is the bore-prep procedure for making the lube switch that will require the least number of shots with the new lube to get it working its best? Given the primer availability problem, I'd rather not waste any in "breaking in" the bore to the different lube.

Look forward to your suggestions.
PBSmith

You don't mention which specific tumble lube you are using. I am going to assume an Alox based lube.
I was using just such a tumble lube and decided to switch to a lubrisizer just as you are. I went with an NRA 50/50 lube(specifically White Label) to closely approximate the chemical mixture and results I was getting with the tumble lube.
No "seasoning" was necessary due to the similar chemical composition.
It worked perfectly.
As long as the room is relatively warm, the lubrisizer doesn't really need to be heated to work properly. The 50/50 lube gave me the same accuracy and performance the tumble lube did. I get no evidence of leading with it.
Best of luck on your switch.

[gwpercle]

I've never heard of prepping the bore for a change in lubricants .
I clean the barrel / gun after every shooting session and do no prep for a "new" lube ...
just shoot the new lubed boolits in the clean barrel .
Maybe you have to do something for Moly Coated / Moly based lubes when you are changing from them .
Gary

[megasupermagnum]

My guess is that the guns, regardless of lube, are capable of shooting far better than a human with an offhand hold can.
I'm not sure it makes a hill of beans difference.

No, it definitely matters. I've had groups just about cut in half by lube changes.

[carelesslove]

carelesslove, here (again) !

Yup, I felt it necessary, to deeply clean my LYMAN 4500 and all affected guns, after shooting "Brand L" Black Moly bullet lube.

For ~50 years, I have been a "chronic" cleaner - after every shooting session. Using LBT Soft Blue has been a real eye-opener. I am trying to skip cleanings, to follow Veral Smith's recommendation. So far, he is right on.

I retired a few years ago, and am actually getting to shoot more and I don't have the time to keep all my guns clean - but I am keeping them warm !

Thanks, Tom

[megasupermagnum]

I don't clean after every time I shoot. I figure the bullet lube is as good a protectant as any gun oil, possibly better.