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Thread: Are .30 caliber or .308 caliber diameters different

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    ...The most annoying is when bullets are called "heads",...
    Asleep at the wheel again I guess, but I have NEVER, EVER herd of bullets being called heads. A link or reference would be appreciated.
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy Stewbaby's Avatar
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    Are .30 caliber or .308 caliber diameters different

    I blame The US military for .30, lol (7.62 was at least used on the m14).




  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    .30 caliber barrels are normally bored to .300". Normal rifling is cut .004" deep, therefore the full groove diameter of a .30 caliber barrel is .308". All ".30 caliber" bullets are made .308" so they can fill the barrel.

    I know of no manufacturer who makes .300 bullets. If you're measuring .300 bullets in a box of .308/7.62 ammo (or .300 magnum) you're doing something wrong.
    Ihole is correct. There are two diameters in a barrel. The greater (major) diameter is the groove; the lesser (minor) is the bore.

    The groove diameter is what you are checking bullet fit against.

    Good info here https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ter-teminology

    Listing the bore diameter as a Caliber is a carryover from the early days.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-24-2021 at 10:34 PM.
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  4. #24
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
    Asleep at the wheel again I guess, but I have NEVER, EVER herd of bullets being called heads. A link or reference would be appreciated.
    Except for the guys around here that try to sell "stuff" on Craigslist.

    "Heads" for bullets is pretty common.

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimoreed View Post
    No wonder my 300blackout sucks, Ive been swaging .308s down to 300. Then why isn’t it called 308blkout? Reloading is so comfusing, next thing you'll tell me that a .38 special isn’t .38. [wink wink, nod nod] More research is required.
    You set the hook well with some. You missed the purple font.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    The manager of my local bank branch is a shooter/hunter reloader and he calls bullets ‘heads’. Only guy that I’ve ever met that does.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master


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    At our local gun store, there are usually a few reloading items..people, during the ammo shortage would try to buy the projectiles and I heard their clerk telling them they were just the heads...

  8. #28
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    Heads...pills...bullets...whatever

    If my head hurts, sometimes I take a pill.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    A "caliber" and correct bullet diameter is determined by the bore size.

    The "caliber" of each named cartridge is wide open to the maker's desire to have a distinction for his ammo in the retail market.
    Thus, off the top of my head for factory .30 caliber cartridges, we have .300 BLK.; .30 Carbine; .300 Savage; .30-30 Win; .308 Win/7.62mm; .30-06 Spring.; .300 Win Mag.; .300 Wby Mag.; .30 Rem; .300 WSM; .300 WSSM; all of them shooting .308" bullets.

    It's even worse for many handgun cartridges. Like, there is nothing about a .38 Special that measures .38". And the supposed deadly 9mm is nothing more than a hot loaded .38 Special with puny, light-for-caliber .356"/.357" bullets.

    All of this only means we need a loading manual for whatever cartridge and bullet weight we want to work with.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    It's even worse for many handgun cartridges. Like, there is nothing about a .38 Special that measures .38".

    I think that came from the cap & ball .36 Caliber Navy Colt days that the barrels were .357 inches in dia.

    When cartridges came along, the arms makers only had to do some minimal retooling to make the new guns from the
    equipment they already had for making the .36 cap & ball revolvers & little known .38 rimfire.

    They called them .38s as an advertising gimmick sort of deal so you'd feel like you had more gun the the old .36 C&B was.
    That held, and worked OK for .38S&W, .38 Long, and .38 Special.

    Then along came the .357Mag. It sounded more cool, and would sell better than ".38 Special Extra Long" or something else
    to make the average shopper feel they really had something better than just an extended .38Spec.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 11-25-2021 at 06:53 PM.
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  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy
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    Some times after a round has been out for awhile they just change the name like the Remington 244 to the Remington 6 mm or 7 mm express to the Remington 280

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    They called them .38s as an advertising gimmick sort of deal so you'd feel like you had more gun the the old .36 C&B was.
    That held, and worked OK for .38S&W, .38 Long, and .38 Special.
    All the "confusing" labels for cartridges came from marketing departments, not engineering. I've read that the original ".38 Special" designation was taken from the original (specified) diameter of the loaded case at the mouth and that sounded bigger/better than ".357 Special", et al, to the marketing people. Later, the same cases were being made from harder but slightly thinner brass so ".38" no longer had any legitimate meaning at all but the label stuck. I really don't know if all of that's true but, from what I do know about deceptive advertising and successful marketing to gullible people, it sounds reasonable.

    And - the .244 Rem was changed to 6mm Rem to reflect the rifling change from 1 turn in 12" to 1 in 10" to better handle 100 gr. bullets; that twist change made it a better competitor to the .243. The 6mm Rem is a slightly better "all round" varmint/medium game cartridge than the .243 Win but it came too late to save it in the market.

    Oh yes, while we're on it, I sometimes read that the .243 Win is more prone to "case stretching" than other cartridges; that's nonsense.

  13. #33
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    I must take exception with all the EXPERTS (a previous high pressure leak) on this thread. Of course there is a .30 caliber boolit that is NOT .308 caliber:

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    or


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    Now of course this a "Self Help" Bullet/Boolit and one must apply their own jacket (Paper).
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTANG View Post
    I must take exception with all the EXPERTS (a previous high pressure leak) on this thread. Of course there is a .30 caliber boolit that is NOT .308 caliber:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    or


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    Now of course this a "Self Help" Bullet/Boolit and one must apply their own jacket (Paper).
    So, what's the end result after adding two or three of turns of paper jacket to a .300" bullet?

  15. #35
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    This hobby wouldn’t be as much fun, if it were too easy or logical !

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimus View Post
    Some times after a round has been out for awhile they just change the name like the Remington 244 to the Remington 6 mm or 7 mm express to the Remington 280
    It started out as the 280 rem. they switched to 7mm express to try and bring new interest , they switched back because of the confusion with the 77mm rem mag , I had a older 280 rem in a 740 .

    I believe the 244 rem they switched the twist in the rifles and did the switch on name to bring life into a dead one .

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
    Asleep at the wheel again I guess, but I have NEVER, EVER herd of bullets being called heads. A link or reference would be appreciated.
    I have seen it a lot ... usually not on this site and usually by newbe's ... to them a bullet is a complete loaded round . They like to call the projectile "Heads" .
    That and calling Load Data ... recipes ... used to bother me ... it's data we ain't Julia Child and we ain't baking Cakes ... I try not to let either term bother me any more .
    And I don't have no stinking links ... just take our word for it ... why would I lie to you .
    Gary
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    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    I have seen it a lot ... usually not on this site and usually by newbe's ... to them a bullet is a complete loaded round . They like to call the projectile "Heads" .
    That and calling Load Data ... recipes ... used to bother me ... it's data we ain't Julia Child and we ain't baking Cakes ... I try not to let either term bother me any more .
    And I don't have no stinking links ... just take our word for it ... why would I lie to you .
    Gary
    got it, guess I'll go now and count my clips. LOL
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Goodness. Yes, when it's easy to get terms right it's mildly irritating to read/hear the simple language of firearms and ammo get corrupted by people who should know better isn't it? Little wonder that so much gets misunderstood when people who don't know what they're talking about try to converse with people who do! Some of my verbal "favorites" include:

    * Head separations that get called "incipient separations".
    * Removable magazines that get called "clips."
    * Cartridges that get called "bullets."
    * Bullets that get called "projos" and "heads."
    * Brass cases that get called "casings."
    * Clumsy price snobs that call Lee reloading tools "junk."
    * Saying to adjust a press to "cam over" when cam over simply means the toggle lever block can (or can't!) be rotated passed top-dead-center, so no adjustment is required.

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