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Thread: Substituting steel shot with TSS shot?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Substituting steel shot with TSS shot?

    There is so much great knowledge around here .... so I thought I ask my question here.

    I want to come up with a subsonic 12ga TSS load that would have a velocity of around 900 - 1000fps. The reason is ... my little 870 Tac-14 has become my favorite woods bumming/small game gun ..... but ufffffffffff ... she is loud with the 14" barrel and without hearing protection.

    ( link to image )

    So, I found a couple of published steel shot recipes and for which I have all the components.

    My question now is, what would happen if I substitute the steel shot with equal weight of TSS shot of about roughly the same size, and add some filler to make up for the difference in volume? Would pressures go up or down? And why?

    Again the substitution would be same weight .... so same payload.

    Here are the recipes .... as you can see they are not subsonic yet .... one is close though ... I would have to decrease the powder load a bit.

    Load with Hodgdon International Clays
    (from the Advantages Manual)
    • Cheddite hull 2 ¾, 12ga
    • Cheddite Primer 209
    • International Clays Powder - 18 grains
    • FS12 gas seal
    • LBC30 wad
    • ¾ oz of steel shot (#7 or #6)
    • 7800 PSI (SAAMI Max: 11,500 PSI)
    • 1140 FPS (Speed of sound: 1125 FPS)


    Load with Hodgdon Clays

    (from the Advantages Manual)
    • Cheddite hull 2 ¾, 12ga
    • Cheddite Primer 209
    • Clays Powder - 18 grains
    • FS12 gas seal
    • LBC30 wad
    • ¾ oz of steel shot (#7 or #6)
    • 9200 PSI (SAAMI Max: 11,500 PSI)
    • 1300 FPS (Speed of sound: 1125 FPS)


    Load with Hodgdon Titewad
    (from the Advantages Manual)
    • Cheddite hull 2 ¾, 12ga
    • Cheddite Primer 209
    • Titewad Powder - 17 grains
    • FS12 gas seal
    • LBC30 wad
    • ¾ oz of steel shot (#7 or #6)
    • 1050 PSI (SAAMI Max: 11,500 PSI)
    • 1330 FPS (Speed of sound: 1125 FPS)
    Last edited by faustus; 11-22-2021 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    The TSS shot and the steel shot of equal weight do not occupy the same volume. The wads used for TSS are not the same ones that should be used for an equivalent weight of steel. Just like lead and steel data for equivalent weights cannot be interchanged TSS and Steel cannot. Shotgun data is heavily dependent on hull capacity and how the total payload fills the hull. Just like in rifle loading you do not use lead data for solid copper bullets. Lead, Steel and the various composite shot (TSS, ITX, etc.) load data is not interchangeable.
    Bill

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    You’ll be better off using lead. I have a Tac-14 a buddy gave me. Brand new. Added a brace, rail, and red dot.




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  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    The shorter shot column will produce less pressure but the filler will increase pressure. The guys at https://www.ballisticproducts.com/ should be your best resource for data.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Trail View Post
    You’ll be better off using lead. I have a Tac-14 a buddy gave me. Brand new. Added a brace, rail, and red dot.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Which pistol brace did you go with??? You like it? I am not sure I want to spend the money until the ATF ruling comes down
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-23-2021 at 08:11 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Hogtamer's Avatar
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    Got yourself a street sweeper there BT, the brace making it much more shootable.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
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    Faustus,

    as you probably know,with TSS, you can use much smaller shot and it still penetrates. More pellets means better coverage.

    I have loaded TSS with double cups, my 20 load uses a cut down (legs off) 28 cup inside the 20 cup. I can fit more than an ounce (I use 30 grams) in that tiny 28 cup.You want strong TSS cups for the main cup. I also wrap the inner cup in a mylar wrap to make sure my load is barrel safe.

    Here in Finland we have a TSS vendor (Ammox) who have pressure tested their recipes. They sell the whole cocktail, all the components except powder.

    Substituting shot only is not a good idea. My 20 load puts 170 holes in a pistol target @ 50 meters with buckshot-like penetration. Heavy is good!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Which pistol brace did you go with??? You like it? I am not sure I want to spend the money until the ATF ruling comes down
    I love it (besides it’s Remington). Makes these shockwave style shotguns actually usable. Installation is a breeze, but it’s very easy to cross thread the buffer tube to the adapter. Bought it online for $98 plus shipping. Pm me if you want that link.

    As for the ATF, I’m not concerned about them alphabet bois. It’s all a money racket anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Trail View Post
    I love it (besides it’s Remington). Makes these shockwave style shotguns actually usable. Installation is a breeze, but it’s very easy to cross thread the buffer tube to the adapter. Bought it online for $98 plus shipping. Pm me if you want that link.

    As for the ATF, I’m not concerned about them alphabet bois. It’s all a money racket anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Oh, BTW, it’s a SB tactical brace.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    a
    As you probably know, with TSS, you can use much smaller shot and it still penetrates. More pellets means better coverage.
    Just for the heck of it, I ran a 1/2 ounce, 1200 fps load of #9 pure gold shot (density19.3) through KPY Ballistic Calculator: 170 pellets with enough oomph to penetrate and kill a duck at seventy yards.

    If gold was the price of lead, I'd be shooting 2" 410 gauge only.
    Cap'n Morgan

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check