Lee collet die

[murf205]

I'm sure some members here have a Lee collet die for neck sizing cases. Tell me your opinions on it please. I don't have a way to measure boolit run-out but I [I]think[I] I would like the idea because my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.

[Three44s]

When I contemplate adding a cartridge to my mix that I shoot and hand load for, I always check to see if Lee makes a collet die for it. If it is not available, I do not automatically shy away from it but lack of availability from them does back me up some.

Three44s

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have several Lee Collet neck sizer dies and think they are the cat's meow for assembling ammo to be loaded for bolt action rifles and single shot rifles. In cartridges like 22 hornet, you greatly increase case life...others may vary.

I'm not sure about improvements in the case of runout? BUT, I can say, as to runout with cast boolit ammo for rifle cartridges, I have found standard Lee Seaters to be my main cause for poor runout...Poor design and poor finishing. I have replaced all my Lee seater dies (in rifle calibers) with Forster BR seater dies, I believe their design is best you can get for the money. Also, they don't crimp, if I want a crimp, I use a Lee FCD.

[1hole]

Choosing sizing and seating dies. ??? I do have a concentricity gage and I love it. Rolling a reload over a flat surface while looking for small bullet tip wobble is pointless, any visible wobble is huge.

Lee's Collet Neck Die used with a body die from whoever and good cases make straighter Full Length sized reloads than any other dies I've ever checked - and that's a LOT of dies! (Meaning that NO dies can consistently make straight reloads if we're using lousy cases with bad necks. But, carefully selected cases with lightly turned necks and small weight differences can make some very good ammo!)

We have TWO die makers that make excellent seaters and they are virtual duplicates: Forster/Bonanza's Competition and Redding's Bench Rest. All of the others are pretty much tied in a distant second place no matter what they're called or how much they sell for. I've found as much variation between individual seaters of the same brand as there is between brands!

IME, Lee's simple but tight fitting rifle seaters are generally in the top tier of the second place seaters; I'd rather use it than any other second tier seater of any brand or price.

Seaters with micrometer thimble heads help the loader when making small seating changes but those pretty mike heads don't do anything to improve the actual quality of the ammo.

[15meter]

my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.

I wipe the inside of the neck with Imperial wax on a Q-Tip, it seems to reduce the effort to pull the expnder plug out.

Not the answer to the question you asked, I've never used the Lee collet sizer but I've got a buddy who swears by them.

[243winxb]

The 223 expander can be had to pull out, using a standard fl die. Neck turn the brass or buy a bushing die.

Tested the Lee method on 243, requires 35 pounds down force on the lever to get good neck tension. Great work out doing 100 cases. NOT. There is a cam over method, i didnt try.

My 223 brass gets neck turned & sized in a standard RCBS fl die.

[murf205]

Choosing sizing and seating dies. ??? I do have a concentricity gage and I love it. Rolling a reload over a flat surface while looking for small bullet tip wobble is pointless, any visible wobble is huge.

Lee's Collet Neck Die used with a body die from whoever and good cases make straighter Full Length sized reloads than any other dies I've ever checked - and that's a LOT of dies! (Meaning that NO dies can consistently make straight reloads if we're using lousy cases with bad necks. But, carefully selected cases with lightly turned necks and small weight differences can make some very good ammo!)

We have TWO die makers that make excellent seaters and they are virtual duplicates: Forster/Bonanza's Competition and Redding's Bench Rest. All of the others are pretty much tied in a distant second place no matter what they're called or how much they sell for. I've found as much variation between individual seaters of the same brand as there is between brands!

IME, Lee's simple but tight fitting rifle seaters are generally in the top tier of the second place seaters; I'd rather use it than any other second tier seater of any brand or price.

Seaters with micrometer thimble heads help the loader when making small seating changes but those pretty mike heads don't do anything to improve the actual quality of the ammo.

Do you use the FL die first with the expander stem out of the die or the collet first when making FL sized ammo? As far as case necks, do you inside neck ream (L E Wilson) or outside turn? I have used every lube imaginable for my sizer but it still drags pretty good coming out of the die.

[dale2242]

If the brass I am using is range pick up I FL size it the first time.
Once it it fire formed to my chamber I collet neck size it.
The brass is collet neck sized from there on.
I seat all my bullets with a Vickerman seater.

[243winxb]

The 5.56/223 comes with or forms its own donut. A bushing can be adjusted to not size that far down. Most will not, even if you try.

Donut-

The collet die may not provide enough neck tension for an auto loading rifle, unless modified.

A Redding Body Die is needed with the Lee collet die.

[oley55]

Tested the Lee method on 243, requires 35 pounds down force on the lever to get good neck tension. Great work out doing 100 cases. NOT.

Interesting, using a Forster Co-Ax press I find it easy to over size my 308 brass to the point there are distortion marks left in the brass at the collet slits. Easy adjustment to fix that, but if it is squeezing the neck enough to cause the brass to flow you would think it would size enough to grip a boolit. Perhaps you got one with an oversized mandrel..?

To the OP, I am not certain what the results would be for brass that has NOT been neck turned. I only use LC brass sorted by year and head stamp variations, but still find some cases that can not be turned to my target neck thickness and they get tossed. I haven't really checked to see if it would be an issue, but in my minds eye, the collet would be pinching the brass slightly off center and more likely to negatively effect the very concentricity the collet die is intended to eliminate.

For what it's worth I believe the Lee Collet sizing die reduces brass work hardening. With a regular sizing die the neck is squeezed smaller and then the expander stretches it open (sized twice). With the collet die the brass is only worked/sized once.

[1hole]

Do you use the FL die first with the expander stem out of the die or the collet first when making FL sized ammo?

What I do depends on what I'm doing. Loading what's the "best" accuracy all the time is time and work intensive for no meaningful benefit. Thus, for casual shooting or normal big game hunting with my common factory rifles, I use conventional FL die sets used in the conventional manner. But, for target or varmint shooting with highly accurate rifles, the extra work is worth it and I suspect that's what you're after.

As far as case necks, do you inside neck ream (L E Wilson) or outside turn?

First, Wilson and Forster reamers are very good for what they're good for. Thing to remember about reamers is that factory chambers are larger than need be AND factory case necks are thinner than need be so removing the least possible amount of neck thickness to obtain a more concentric inside AND outside form is best. Bottom line, just reaming makes the necks thinner but doesn't do a thing about improving concentricity.

If I'm using standard cases for my cartridge (as usual) I will occasionally ream but not often and then I only ream enough to clean up the neck's inner surface. THEN, I will size and skim turn the outside enough to clean up about 70-80% of the neck's surface; thinning more than that for a standard chamber is counter productive.

I have used every lube imaginable for my sizer but it still drags pretty good coming out of the die.

Lee's collet neck die doesn't have and doesn't need a neck expander so no lube is needed or helpful. (And pressing harder to obtain "more bullet grip" is useless, we will never made the necks smaller than the central mandrel. That's okay because any smaller neck than a couple thou under normal bullet diameter is meaningless, smaller only increases seating effort and gives NO increase in bullet grip.

That said, I've never found that standard expander balls actually benefit from inside neck lubing. My measurements show that the modest expander extraction force does NOT seem to "stretch necks" but I still love a bit of inside neck lube to make withdrawal smoother; a thin trace of powdered graphite applied with a bore cleaning brush works very well for me.

Now, when using Lee's Collet Neck die in conjunction with a body die, which die to use first doesn't matter but it takes using both dies to endup with "conventional" resized cases with straighter necks. (And you need to understand that the popular idea of setting case shoulders back a couple thou from fired dimension is pointless; not only do fired cases fully expand and slightly contract in diameter, the same expansion and contraction applies to shoulder placement.)

P.S.: For what it's worth, Vickerman's old "open side window" type seaters are interesting and neat to use. But I've never heard anyone say that, on average, they seat any straighter than conventional (second tier) seaters. Fact is, ONLY Forster and Redding target type seaters have full body length sleeves that closely match serious Bench Rester's hand dies, and that matters!

[1hole]

Interesting, ... there are distortion marks left in the brass at the collet slits. ... if it is squeezing the neck enough to cause the brass to flow you would think it would size enough to grip a boolit. Perhaps you got one with an oversized mandrel..?

It doesn't take a lot of press lever pressure to reduce fired case necks to fit Lee's central mandrel and no amount of additional lever pressure is going to change those steel mandrels!

I believe the four slightly raised vertical squeeze marks sometimes seen on collet resized case necks are about how much the necks had to be reduced than any simple squeeze pressure. In fact, I believe we would push the aluminum top cap completely out of the die body before we could begin to cold swage that much brass.

[murf205]

I don't see how extra pressure on the press handle would increase the neck tension. If I see this correctly, the neck can only be sized to the mandrel size.
To get more tension, you would have to reduce the mandrel diameter, right?

[Three44s]

You can buy an undersized mandrel from Lee.

Three44s

[243winxb]

I don't see how extra pressure on the press handle would increase the neck tension. If I see this correctly, the neck can only be sized to the mandrel size.
To get more tension, you would have to reduce the mandrel diameter, right?

Yes, smaller mandrel.

Lee said 25 pounds on the press lever to do the sizing. I used weights to test. Took 35 pounds to get the neck fully sized to the mandrel, on an RCBS 2 press. My mandrel measured .241" for a .243" diameter bullet.

Custom mandrels may be ordered from Lee.

If you google, there is a cam over method that may work better? I didnt test it.

The trick is to get the same neck tension/bullet hold at each sizing of the necks. Just as i see it.

[tankgunner59]

I started buying my rifle dies I bought the three die sets. (All of my dies are Lee) When I tried my first collet neck sizing die I fell in love and bought one for each of my calibers. When I get a new set of rifle dies I get the four die set that includes the collet neck sizer. Best review I can give you.
Disclaimer; Lee recommends not neck sizing cases for lever and semi-auto actions, these are the only ones I don't have a neck sizer for. There are folks who use neck sized brass in levers and semi-autos.

[murf205]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I will try a collet die and see if my CZ 527 likes it. I sure wish I could find some Varget or IMR 8208. My rifle seems to like BL-c2 but it is dirty.

[1hole]

Disclaimer; Lee recommends not neck sizing cases for lever and semi-auto actions, these are the only ones I don't have a neck sizer for. There are folks who use neck sized brass in levers and semi-autos.

Lee cautions what "common knowledge" says; unfortunately, at least for most lever gun cartridges, common knowledge is wong ... again. I've happily used Lee's Collet Neck Dies for full power hunting loads for myself and others in both .30-30 and .35 Rem for decades.

[Iowa Fox]

I have been using the Lee collet neck sizer in various cartridges since they first came out The first one was for the 22 Hornet after a Rocky Raab article about his experience with it. On the 223 and bigger cases I full length every time with a Redding body die. I get straighter loaded rounds using those two dies than anything else I have tried including Redding bushing dies. It beats any thing I can find at any cost.

One added feature that doesn't get mentioned much is squeezing the case neck several times while rotating the case really helps uniform neck thickness. I think that's another thing that helps minimize runout. You simply can't beat that die. I think Fortune cookies did a you tube on uniforming neck thickness with the collet die.

Here's the down side. In 2019 Lee made a change to the collet so that it doesn't size 100 % of the neck. If your a cast bullet shooter you will not notice it. If your a 1000 yard match shooter starting with brand new premium brass its a big thing. Lee is abrasively adamant they will not sell a old style collet for any money. Believe me I have tried.

25 foot lbs of pressure on the die is way too much in my experience. Most people read the directions that come with the die and experience poor luck with it. Joun Valentine wrote an excellent article on the die that really makes the light bulb go off. I'm sure its on the net if you google John Valentine Lee collet neck sizing die. The press that works the best for me is a old Lyman Orange Crusher I bought when they first came out. I don't have as many presses as Pressman but I have quite a few. No other press works as easy or as well as the Lyman. And yes I do cam over. Lee sells different size mandrells for 5 bucks so neck tension is real easy.

To many guys apply to much pressure and all they do is mark up the neck from the collet, collapse shoulders , or push the aluminum cap out of the die which leaves the torn off aluminum threads of the cap stuck in the steel die body threads.

Lee if you see this take care of the faithful customers.

[1hole]

Lee's neck sizer has a moving part, the collet itself, and that means it has a learning curve that can't be achieved by reading any written "instructions." People who think they know it all when they simply shoulve a fired case as far into a die as it will go and pull it back out are unlikely to ever learn to use it to best effect.