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Thread: Lee collet die

  1. #21
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.
    where you only size half of the neck?
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.
    It's unlikely anyone can think up anything about reloading that hasn't been thought of and tried ... repeatedly.

    Neck dies exist because they are necessary to properly neck size; FL dies just won't neck size properly.

    FL dies squeeze necks smaller than they should be and have expander balls to stretch them back out to the correct inside diameter. Trying to seat a bullet in an unexpanded neck would simply require more force to seat and it would also have to be its own very poor expander.

    Finally, understand that brass has a very limited elastic range. The residual overstressed neck "tension", or supposed "bullet grip", from excessive sizing without an expander ball would actually be no greater than if a proper size expander ball was used.

  4. #24
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    No one has mentioned that you need to squish the neck with the Lee Die and then rotate the case and do it again. This improves concentricity. These dies are best used on cases like .303 Brit where F/L sizing reduces case life to 1-2 sizings. Setting the shoulder back to original specs when it is already formed to a longer chamber is the way to separate cases at the head.

    I have also used them on .308's and .30-06's and only get one reload before having to set the shoulder back a few .000 so the round will chamber easily. So I use an RCBS X Die for those cartridges. They maintain Case Length by blocking the case neck from moving forward during extraction of the expander ball. I have some Federal .308 cases I've loaded 13 times so far using that die.

    But teh Lee Collet dies are excellent for sizing rimmed cases

    Randy.
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  5. #25
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    I used regular neck dies for a number of years before switching to the Lee collet neck sizer. I also used regular full length sizers for a while before going to neck sizing.

    IMO, a collet die works equally well on rimless cases as it does for rimmed cartridges.

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  6. #26
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    The three best products I’ve ever purchased from Lee are the Collet crimp die for my .357/.41 mag, the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press, and the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die. I have plenty of Lee product’s I’m very satisfied with and a couple clunkers but these three are indispensable as far as my needs go.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy View Post
    The three best products I’ve ever purchased from Lee are the Collet crimp die for my .357/.41 mag, the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press, and the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die. I have plenty of Lee product’s I’m very satisfied with and a couple clunkers but these three are indispensable as far as my needs go.
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  8. #28
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.
    Most standard fl dies size the neck down way more then needed. This is so the die works with ALL brands of brass.
    The expander pulling thru the neck, opens the inside of the neck to the correct diameter.

    To necks size only, a neck size die is needed. A fl die should not be used to only neck size, on most cartridges. There are exceptions when the case body has a lot of taper. Like a 303 British.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    I am curious as to whether anyone has ever tried neck sizing in a FL die with the expander button removed. For those who want more neck tension that would surely do it.
    When a die maker builds a conventional neck sizer or full length sizer die the neck sizing portion of the die is most generally dimensioned to size the case neck too small. Leaving the sizing button off would likely cause a bullet to require too much force to seat it. In a cast boolit that would be way over done.

    By using these conventional dies intact you are bringing the seating force required back to a more reasonable level but brass is still likely getting overworked.

    The best combinations are a body die (does not touch the neck) and either a Lee collet die or a neck sizing bushing die. The latter being the very best but more expensive.

    Three44s
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  10. #30
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    Has anyone ever noticed that some brass have a primer flash hole that is not centered on the primer pocket? When using the Lee collet set ,the mandrel uses the flash hole as centering point. If the hole is off center, the neck may not be concentric with the body. Of course, that may be true with all dies using the decapper pin.
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  11. #31
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    Yesterday in a quest for a old style Lee collet neck sizer. I received another 6mm Creedmoor die. I knew it was going to be a new style when I ordered but was willing to spend the money just to see whats what. New style can be identified by the notched/serrated lock rings. In the same family of cartridges I have two dies for the 6.5 Creedmoor and now 2 dies for the 6mm Creedmoor. This is what I found.

    I'm going to post some overall length measurements of the dies I have to give you guys an idea of why I was whining.

    First two dies are my 6.5 creedmoor collet neck sizer dies old style with hex lock nuts

    6.5 CM die #1 Sleeve Collet
    1.375 1.844

    6.5 CM Die #2 1.375 1.836

    Second are the two 6mm creedmoor new style with serrated lock nuts Die #2 is the one Grant lined up for me, Die #1 is the one that gave me the heart burn

    6mm CM Die #1 Sleeve collet
    1.376 1.768

    6mm CM Die #2 1.375 1.808


    The sleeves are consistent on oal but the collets are all over the board . Really leaves me scratching my head about their machining process. Did Lee add back some length after they shortened the collet to appease Mic McPhearson and hate to admit publicly they laid an egg. Hard to tell with numbers all over the board.

    The 6mm die#1 is the one that was giving me the heartburn. No wonder! Look how short the collet is.
    Last edited by Iowa Fox; 11-27-2021 at 03:27 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubetcha View Post
    Has anyone ever noticed that some brass have a primer flash hole that is not centered on the primer pocket? When using the Lee collet set ,the mandrel uses the flash hole as centering point. If the hole is off center, the neck may not be concentric with the body.
    First, you're right about that small off-center angle but, IMHO, it's unlikely to make much difference in a Lee collet sized neck.

    Second, I only use Lee's Collet Die (along with a body die) on my most precise ammo. After that I discard any cases with a visible off-center flash hole. Then comes (light) neck turning, primer pocket uniforming, flash hole uniforming and deburring, case length uniforming/chamfering and weight segregating. After all of that, my processed cases of any brand have very good qualities.
    (All meaning that using Lee's collet neck die is only a step in the right direction, it's NOT the sum total of making good cases out of common brass.)

    THEN, it's off to the range to confidently develop a load that shoots well!

  13. #33
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    Back to one of Murf’s original points, it’s not hard to fix the difficult extraction of the expander ball.

    Remove the expander stem from the die and chuck it up in a hand drill, lathe or drill press. Lube it with very light oil or WD-40. Polish the ball with 320, 400 and 600 Wet-or-Dry. Go easy so the diameter isn’t reduced; just smooth the roughness. Clean with your favorite solvent and reassemble.

    I’ve done this many times to expanders that were so tight they squeaked when drawn through the necks and required substantial effort. After, extraction was much easier and silent.
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  14. #34
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    I almost never use expander balls. I size and then use a lyman M die. Cases stay a lot straighter and I can control neck tension much better

  15. #35
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    As the OP used the 223 cartridge as a basis for discussion, I would add in that context that the very best combo would be a neck sizer die that uses interchangeable bushings plus a body die.

    The next best and quite a bit less expensive would be a Lee collet die.

    Either of these approaches would be augmented by outside neck turning to get consistent neck thickness and uniformity. One must be aware of thinning necks too much however.

    Lee makes under and (I believe) oversized mandrels for their collet die. With a bushing die, you try different size bushings.

    The goal here is to reduce overworking of the case neck and optimize neck tension.

    Conventional full length and neck dies create more overworking and also cause spring back where the case is still responding to the previous excessive force applied by the initial squeeze.

    Three44s
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    I'm sure some members here have a Lee collet die for neck sizing cases. Tell me your opinions on it please. I don't have a way to measure boolit run-out but I think I would like the idea because my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.
    Assuming this is not for an AR, a Lee Collet is a great part of truly customized case prep. You’ll still need to bump the shoulder. Its my personal experience that polishing the stem of a Lee full body die and lubing inside the necks (as well as the external case) ensures the case won’t get stuck.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Seaters with micrometer thimble heads help the loader when making small seating changes but those pretty mike heads don't do anything to improve the actual quality of the ammo.
    This simple fixture and a dial indicator will allow precise adjustment of any die for less than the cost of a single “micrometer” die.


  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    …I would like the idea because my 223 sizer is pretty stiff withdrawing the case.
    What is the diameter of a sized case without the expander in the die and what is it with the expander in the die?

    The suggestions on turning would obviously effect wall thickness, so a case that has been turned and ran through your die will have a smaller ID than an unturned case in the very same die. That, in and of itself, could make all the difference.

    What lube are you using?

    There are other ways to “skin the cat”. Bushing dies allow you to pick the OD you want the outside, so you are not squeezing the neck down as much then expanding it back out, working the brass more than necessary.

    Sinclair makes push in expanders that have a long taper and Dillon uses carbide on their dies. Both are better than most other expanders as far as force required.

    I do own collet dies but I don’t use them on calibers that I also own auto loaders so chambered.
    Last edited by jmorris; 12-23-2021 at 09:04 AM.

  19. #39
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    Quote from jmorris:

    “I do own collet dies but I don’t use them on calibers that I also own auto loaders so chambered.“

    I segregate but it’s a challenge. I do not own a body die in 223 but if you had one, you could theoretically find a happy medium adjustment where ones autoloaders, bolt and single shots could digest the same processed brass.

    Three44s
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy Toolmaker TN's Avatar
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    I've used the Lee collet dies since they first came out. I have them in every caliber they make them in that I load for. They are the best thing I've ever used for their intended purpose.

    There are a couple of points of advice I could offer concerning them, based on long use, and learning a few things the hard way:

    1) As some have noted, the dies can take excessive force when sizing case necks. There is a reason for this.
    The reason comes from the mechanism of the collet. There is an angled surface at the top outer portion of the collet, which moves against a mating surface in the die to close the collet and the case neck against the mandrel. When the press handle is lowered, the collet springs back to it's original position, allowing for easy extraction of the case. You cannot size the case neck smaller than the mandrel, and the neck will in fact spring away from the mandrel slightly, causing easy extraction. When you have to use an excessive amount of force to either size a case neck or to extract a case from the die, it's nothing you are doing wrong (assuming you have the die set up according to the instructions).
    If you take the die apart, you will see that there is probably some roughness on the angled surface of the collet, or it's mating surface. That roughness will cause the surfaces to gall, resulting in having to use an excessive amount of force to size a case neck.
    Then if the galling continues, when you lower the press handle the collet remains in the closed position, as it has stuck there. This will cause the case to be difficult to remove from the die, as you are having to drag the collet down into the open position with the case before the collet has moved enough to release it's hold on the neck.
    This can be checked when you take the case out. The collet should be loose in the die, you should be able to move it easily. If not, it's because it's stuck part way through it's cycle of movement. The collet isn't fully opened enough for a fired case. If you've ever crushed a case neck/shoulder trying to resize it, that's why.
    The dies also come with a lube on them for protection. It works during storage and shipment, but in using the die, it can also cause the angled surfaces on the collet and mating surface in the die to stick. It should be removed from the inside of the die; especially on the angled portion of the collet, and it's mating surface.
    I then use a dry lubricant (I use Dri-Slide, with moly) to coat both surfaces.
    This should make the die function as it's intended. You should now be amazed at how easy the die works. These dies should be almost effortless in use.

    2) You can control the amount of neck tension (down to the size of the mandrel) by adjusting the die body to your desired neck size. If you need to go smaller, then a small mandrel would be required.

    3) You can use a Lee die for other cartridges of the same caliber. For example, I use a .35 Rem Lee die, with a custom spacer (could just use washers), to size .358 Win. I could size my .35 Whelen cases if I didn't already have a Lee die in this caliber.

    4) You can use standard caliber Lee collet dies to size Ackley Improved cartridges. This is due to the shoulder and body clearance in the collet design. I load cast and jacketed in .223AI, .22-50AI, and .257AI, all with the standard dies. No custom Lee dies needed, unless they don't make a standard die in that caliber.
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