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Thread: Ignition Problem with Ramshot Hunter powder

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Ignition Problem with Ramshot Hunter powder

    I have an 8-pound jug of Ramshot Hunter powder that I am working through. I am loading 300 Winchester Mag rounds. 190 gn Nosler CC and 66.8 gn powder. Have loaded and shot a little over 200 rounds out of the jug. I have noticed that I get a slight hang-fire at times. Seems to occur 1-2 rounds out of a ten shot string. It occurs with both Wolf LRPs and Wolf LRMPs.

    Not having any additional primers to test, I have loaded some rounds with IMR 4831. Both Wolf LRPs and Wolf LRMPs have been used in the IMR 4831 loads. There has not been any indication of any hang-fires with either of the Wolf Prime types.

    I asked Western Powders about the slight hang-fires and got the the following response:

    The powder charge could be underloaded if the bullet is seated out to touch the lands or may not have enough neck tension to hold the bullet in place for proper ignition. The primer may be weaker than it should be. Ball powder is harder to
    ignite than extruded. These are a few issues you may be experiencing.

    Load density is 85%; that should be okay. Ogive is about 0.010" inch off the lands. Can't see neck tension being a problem. Chamber pressure should be about 48k psi.


    Anyone have any thoughts on why it appears that I am having a problem getting a proper ignition with the Hunter powder? Guess it could be the Wolf primers.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
    zarrinvz24's Avatar
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    I've used thousands of Wolf primers and I've found them to be among the best I've ever used. Its a shame they aren't available anymore, but I would highly doubt it could be the primers. Maybe crimp a few and see if that improves ignition.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Are you getting a good firing pin strike, could be the rifle or a headspace issue that allows the case to move on the firing pin strike, a thin belted case with a max chamber can do that. I have heard(?) that Wolf primers need to be seated very firmly, more so that 'American primers?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    IMHO, and experience that using Wolf and Tula primers with ball powders that is known to light more difficult than stick powders will give you hang fires or misfires. Wolf and Tula primers are wonderful primers if used with stick powders.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by MostlyLeverGuns View Post
    Are you getting a good firing pin strike, could be the rifle or a headspace issue that allows the case to move on the firing pin strike, a thin belted case with a max chamber can do that. I have heard(?) that Wolf primers need to be seated very firmly, more so that 'American primers?
    This one I can answer quickly; just happen to check the shoulders on ten fired and ten full length sized cases last week. The average setback on the sized shoulders was 0.0015" from the average of ten of the fired cases. The barrel was installed with a minimal headset and I thought it was time to check it. A solid primer strike.
    Last edited by Pirate69; 11-20-2021 at 09:14 AM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    It appears to be pointing to the ball powder since I am not seeing any problems with the IMR 4831.

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwbolts View Post
    IMHO, and experience that using Wolf and Tula primers with ball powders that is known to light more difficult than stick powders will give you hang fires or misfires. Wolf and Tula primers are wonderful primers if used with stick powders.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy Driver man's Avatar
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    I have had problems with Tula / wolf primers and ball powers. Squib loads and powder puff shots. Not always but only started to occur when I was on my last couple of hundred . I loaded 100 9mm with not one successful load. Using other primers same powder success. I tried leaving the remaining wolf primers in the hot sun for a couple of hours and then reloaded 25 which shot perfectly. Primers were getting a bit dated, about 10 years old and not stored that well. The remaining primers have worked well with no issues .
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Ball Powder Problem- Needs more neck tension/ bullet Hold - Pressure.

    Nosler want the COL at 3.330" i dont know where this puts the bullet shank? But the bullet needs to be in full contact with the necks bearing surface. Trying to get closer to the rifling, bad idea.

    Neck tension minimum is .002" Measure before and after seating a bullet. Has the outside of the neck expanded .002" or more, after seating?
    The bullet is likely moving to soon at primer firing. A Lee Factory Crimp Die may help, but last thing to try. https://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-300-wm.html

    I would try increasing the powder charge to increase pressure. Watching for pressure signs.

    Working pressure is 64,000 PSI
    Last edited by 243winxb; 11-19-2021 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Add link

  9. #9
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Mysteries And Misconceptions Of The All-Important Primer

    https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor..._200909/100079
    We tested loads at both maximum normal pressures and at the starting loads (some labs calculate start loads — we shot them). Standard primers caused no ignition issues at the max load but posted higher extreme variations in pressure and velocity in the lower pressure regimes of the start loads. In extreme cases, the start loads produced short delayed firings — probably in the range of 20 to 40 milliseconds but detectible to an experienced ballistician. Switching that propellant to a Magnum primer smoothed out the performance across the useful range of charge weights and completely eliminated the delays.

    If I've recommended a Magnum primer in reloading data I've developed, it's because my lab results show it's needed.
    A good read on primers.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    The 190 gn bullet is bullet is 1.365" long. It is seated 0.338" deep with a COL of 3.490" This puts the bullet approximately 0.010" off the lands.

    Will verify the neck tension tomorrow. Great suggestion.

    Here is a hair-brain idea. A bullet touching or into the lands is suppose to add approximately 8k psi to the starting pressure. I should be in the 48k psi chamber pressure range now. If I load some rounds, for testing, that are 0 to 0.001" into the lands, there will be no doubt that the bullet will not move until the pressure starts to build. Max pressure should be around 56k psi then. See if the problem disappears.

    I am trying to stay at predicted accuracy nodes. The next node is at approximately 60k psi (no lands contact). A little hot for what I am trying to do. But may have to do a few test rounds if I keep striking out.


    Quote Originally Posted by 243winxb View Post
    Nosler want the COL at 3.330" i dont know where this puts the bullet shank? But the bullet needs to be in full contact with the necks bearing surface. Trying to get closer to the rifling, bad idea.

    Neck tension minimum is .002" Measure before and after seating a bullet. Has the outside of the neck expanded .002" or more, after seating?
    The bullet is likely moving to soon at primer firing. A Lee Factory Crimp Die may help, but last thing to try. https://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-300-wm.html

    I would try increasing the powder charge to increase pressure. Watching for pressure signs.

    Working pressure is 64,000 PSI

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Yes, a good read. Some good info on primers.


    Quote Originally Posted by 243winxb View Post

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    I am using a Lee Collet Neck Die.

    I measured the necks on 10 prepped cases. Two measured 0.330". Seven measured 0.331". One measured 0.332".

    I measured the necks on 10 loaded rounds. Seven measured 0.331". Three measured 0.332".

    Looks like neck tension is something to take a harder look at.

    I have a spare 300 WM seating die. Think I will back the seating rod off and set it to provide a crimp on the loaded rounds. Then see what happens.

    One step at a time.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Do you think it was a high humidity/moisture problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Driver man View Post
    I have had problems with Tula / wolf primers and ball powers. Squib loads and powder puff shots. Not always but only started to occur when I was on my last couple of hundred . I loaded 100 9mm with not one successful load. Using other primers same powder success. I tried leaving the remaining wolf primers in the hot sun for a couple of hours and then reloaded 25 which shot perfectly. Primers were getting a bit dated, about 10 years old and not stored that well. The remaining primers have worked well with no issues .

  14. #14
    Boolit Master



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    With ball powders, I always use magnum primers. Ball powder are a little harder to ignite than stick or flake powders or at least that has been my experience. james

  15. #15
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Problem found, neck tension. I bought a Lee Collet Neck Die to test in my 243 win.

    To much work to just size a neck. 35 pounds force on the RCBS press lever.

    I been using bushing dies. They work perfect. Redding type S.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    If I full length resize, the neck diameter is reduced to 0.329". I can get a 0.002" neck tension by full length sizing. Will work the brass a little harder.

    The smallest neck diameter that I can get with the Lee Collet Neck Die is approximately 0.3005". That is with a lot of pressure. Will not get a lot of neck tension using the collet die. Should the collect die reduce the neck to the same diameter produced by the full length resizing die?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master BABore's Avatar
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    Polish the Lee collet neck die spindle down a thousanths and try again. That's what the collet jaws force the case neck against.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    I was considering doing that. Glad to hear that you think that will work.

    Quote Originally Posted by BABore View Post
    Polish the Lee collet neck die spindle down a thousanths and try again. That's what the collet jaws force the case neck against.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate69 View Post
    If I full length resize, the neck diameter is reduced to 0.329". I can get a 0.002" neck tension by full length sizing. Will work the brass a little harder.

    The smallest neck diameter that I can get with the Lee Collet Neck Die is approximately 0.3005". That is with a lot of pressure. Will not get a lot of neck tension using the collet die. Should the collect die reduce the neck to the same diameter produced by the full length resizing die?
    Is the 0.329" outside diameter?

    The "approximately 0.3005" has me confused. How & where are you taking the measurement?

    Bullet diameter should be .308" The mandrel should be smaller at .306" ?? But after spring back of the brass, will be less neck tension. Not .002"
    Last edited by 243winxb; 11-21-2021 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Added Spring back info.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    Yes, you are right. This does not make sense. Will check tomorrow and see what I was doing.

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