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Thread: Frankenstein 1860 Conversion

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Frankenstein 1860 Conversion

    Thinking of a project involving conversion of a C&B 1860 Army into a cartridge .32-20. Cartridge conversions to .45 LC are established. Will involve the basic conversion of the C&B into cartridge (Kirst Konverter) and then reaming a barrel to accept a .32 (.312") barrel liner and creating chamber inserts into the .45 LC cylinder or modifying a .44 C&B cylinder to accept inserts in .32-20. Looked originally at using an 1851 Navy but those cylinders aren't long enough. 1860 cylinder is. I already have a .36 Navy barrel so will use that as the donor barrel to reline to make a Navy look on a Army frame. Larger grip is fine and barrel length will probably end up 5.5 to 6 inches.

    Does anyone see anything inherently wrong with the thought process?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    It has been a while since I had both an 1851 Navy and an 1860 Army apart at the same time. I see two maybe problems: 1. Will the Navy barrel fit on the arbor of the 1860? and 2. Mounting pin distance and barrel centerline from the arbor of the navy barrel when mounted on an 1860.

    It would not be good if the barrel and cylinder don't line up.

    Good Luck,

    Robert

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Barrel fit on the two pins at front of frame has been checked and is tight and exterior contours fit as well. As for the cylinder and bore alignment I'm thinking that if they aren't "naturally" concentric that the chamber inserts can be reamed a bit off center to compensate before they are fixed in place. barrel fit on cylinder pin is tight and wedge hole appears appropriate also.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Doing a 51 Navy in 22 LR for a customer now. He found a cylinder that was designed for the 22. At the point of making an extractor now. Made a barrel liner from a cut off rifle barrel.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Howell Arms and Kirst both make conversions for 1851s to .22.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Project is moving along. Have a .32-20 pistol barrel that I might turn down but also have some .32-20 barrel liner on order. Have drill bit and reamers on order to ream 1851 barrel for liner. Have a couple of different round bars of 4140 for chamber inserts plus the chamber reamer and Go and No-Go gauges. Have Kirst Konverter in .45 LC. Also have a .44 C&B cylinder that I may try to line permanently and bore through, otherwise I'll make chamber inserts for the .45 LC Kirst cylinder.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master



    skeettx's Avatar
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    Great thread, enjoying the progress

    Good speed

    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  8. #8
    Banned
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    raises question,

    its known that the cartridge conversion process increases the stress on the frame, and severely shortens useful life.

    If 45 colt is bad, thoughts on 32-20? and then consider MODERN factory is all the Hi Vel stuff

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    32-20 will all be handloads to BP pressures and velocities. Cast bullets, same as I'm running through a '73 Winchester clone.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    Making progress, albeit slowly.

    Cut Barrel and Liner
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    Bored Barrel and Turned Liner
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    Bored Barrel and Turned Liner, Muzzle
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    Barrel With Liner Inserted for fit
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    Chamber Insert..45 LC on bottom, .32-20 on top.
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    Chamber Insert with Cartridge (MFG from 7.62 Nagant Brass)
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  11. #11
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    Watching something cool happening here!

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


    missionary5155's Avatar
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    I do enjoy swapping calibers on firearms also. This one is very interesting ! Thank you for including it here.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Bolt-thrust or breech face pressure for a 45 Colt is higher than that of 32-20. The 32-20 operating pressure is marginally higher than the 45 Colt, but the area of the case head pushing against the breech is much smaller - .0.098 square inch(.354 head diameter) vs 0.181 square inch(.480 head diameter) for the 45 Colt. Multiply the area of the case head times your pressure to get breech thrust. Standard 32-20's(16000CPU) should not be a problem.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Update - sorry for the absence for a while. Got involved with a movie in Montana for 5 weeks after the first of the year and life happened... In any case had another project crop up so did a cartridge conversion to an 1851 Navy to .38 Colt and just finished nickel plating it. Set up as an early Richards type conversion without the Mason ejector addition and a bored through percussion cylinder with the Naval roll engraving.Click image for larger version. 

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    For the .32-20 project am considering modifying the plan to use a '51 Navy frame then modifying one of Pietta's 6-shot derringer cylinders (for length) for the inserts/.32-20 chamberings.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    interesting projects!

    "Got involved with a movie in Montana for 5 weeks after the first of the year" sounds a bit chilly.
    ..

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    They did have a cold snap that required most of the cold weather gear that I had taken along. Coldest day started at about -15 and warmed to about 0 without the wind chill. But we did have some 45 degree days too. At least the bears were still in hibernation until the day after we wrapped.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Getting back to work on this. Barrel needs the dovetail cut and front sight installed plus final forcing cone extension determined to mate with final cylinder length. All of the cylinder liners are epoxied in place and two have the chambers cut.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Have made some progress. Barrel is lined and cylinders have had inserts installed and new chambers cut. Working on final tweaks to conversion ring. Have ejector assembly ready to install.

    Need to convert a hammer to have a fixed firing pin and modify the conversion ring a bit. Have dovetail front sight to install and then will zero for 25 yards or so.

    Second pistol is an 1862 Pocket Police to be converted to .38 Colt. Cylinder is converted and have a conversion ring machined but still need hammer cut and loading port. Need to convert hammer to fixed firing pin.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #19
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    Amazing still!
    To this day those type of Colts point better than anything else for me.
    Thanks for the update, 36G!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunkTheory View Post
    raises question,

    its known that the cartridge conversion process increases the stress on the frame, and severely shortens useful life.

    If 45 colt is bad, thoughts on 32-20? and then consider MODERN factory is all the Hi Vel stuff
    There are more than a few 1860s that have been converted to 45 ACP. They operate at much higher pressure. Of course the arbor length has been corrected and basically the replica is tighten up to the way the originals were made.

    Kevin
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check