Mixing for casting alloys

[vikingson57]

Hi there all you experts. I am looking at getting seriously into casting my bullets. I have collected about 200lbs of pure lead for casting for my muzzle loaders. I know from reading I will want to make a harder mix for my .348 and .33 WCF booklets. Is it worth mixing my own, and if so what do I us? Or just break down and by some Lyman#2 for my booklet casting? I know clip on wheel weights with some added tin works good, but in the melting of CWW I see some inconsistency in the make up of the metals. Plus I am not sure where to get enough CWWs to use for casting. I am sure there a other posts covering this, but in my searches, or inept searches, I can’t really fine the info I think I need. Thanks

[Winger Ed.]

I'm not sure if mixing up your own alloys is worth doing all the work and research, or not.

However;
I know that buying the correct alloy for what ya want it to do in pre-made ingots is faster, and more simple.
If you're not going into mass production, or have a ready stash of alloy additives, and want really good rifle boolits---
I'd just buy a few pounds of Lyman #2 and be happy.

[Misery-Whip]

Save the pure for the muzzleloaders. Once it is mixed it cant be reasonably turned back. Many members here sell alloy from time to time that is hard enough and already in ingots. Or work a deal in swapin and sellin to trade pure for alloy.

[Wilderness]

Viking - you'll probably want something pretty hard for the .33 and .348 if you're heading for full power. Reduced power can be softer, maybe wheel weights. I'd say leave the pure lead alone. You'll waste too much of the "good" stuff to bring it up to strength. The classic cordial for that is linotype, but so you don't waste the lino, base your mix on something that's already pretty hard. For full power loads I start with hardball picked up at the range - identified as commercial by the pretty colours.

The process begins with the different brews in your lead collection. You need to get them labelled. Bullet weight is a direct measure of non-lead content, so cast a few bullets with your mould of choice from each source, and label the source with the bullet weight. Once you also know the alloy you are looking for, and the bullet weight that indicates it, you can do the maths and mix to specification.

Bullet weight will not separate tin content from antimony content, but most of the "non-lead" will be antimony, and the hardness tables suggest that a bit of to and fro of the ratio at this level does not have much effect on hardness.

As an example I cast a .30-30 bullet with an intended weight of 170 - 171 gns (about 10% non-lead). Linotype casts 164.5 gns with this mould, Hardball about 173, and soft scrap approaches 180 gns. Other "hard" scrap can be just about anything, but by the time I use it, it WILL be labelled. Two parts of hardball to one of lino will give me a whisker over 170 gns (1x164.5 + 2 x 173 = 510.5, divide by 3 = 170.2), and three to one will do about 171.

A good starting point would be some known commercial alloy. If it works you can keep going back to something similar by casting to the same weight. Starting with a known good alloy will also help you recognise a good casting alloy later on. Duplicating the weight of Lyman #2 will give you a slightly harder bullet, since the #2 is equal proportions of tin and antimony, whereas your scrap brew will have less tin.

This approach does not require a big effort, since once you have your sources labelled you can load the lead pot with the right mix and start casting straight off - though it does pay to check the bullet weight after 20 or so bullets in case it needs fine tuning. Bullet weight will increase very slightly each time the brew is melted, as the non-lead (especially tin) oxidises. Hence the need to keep an eye on it and adjust as necessary.

After each casting session I pour the leftover metal into the ingot mould and label the ingots with bullet weight.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve noticed a lot of people use Super Hard from Roto Metals to harden up pure lead. If you already have some pure lead, I would try something to harden it up, before buying all new alloy.

[243winxb]

50/50 pure/Linotype for rifles.

A gas check should be used.

[RogerDat]

Purchase of some pre-mixed alloy removes the mixing and measuring as being an issue for the final bullet performance. You can get a lot of bullets out of a few pounds of store bought alloy. Lyman #2 is the gold standard for cast bullet, the common reference in Lyman CB loading book is with Lyman #2 alloy and this mold here is the load data.

One can purchase "antimonial lead" from Rotometals is a clean equivalent to COWW lead. Lyman #2 is available, as is linotype. Purchase of enough lead that you can do your initial bullet testing free of questions about what your alloy "really" is.

Pewter purchased off the S&S forum here is mostly tin with some antimony and touch of copper, this can mix with COWW to add tin without reducing the antimony the way adding solder would. Most pewter is lead free unless it is pre 1970's The really black stuff is probably worth more as an antique than as an alloy. Take a long time and lead content to end up with "black pewter".

Linotype or mono/foundry type is the common scrap alloy that can be added that can raise antimony above the 3 - 3.5 percent of COWW's so one can home brew Lyman #2. That or the Super Hard 40% antimony lead from Rotometals are the main options for bumping up the antimony.

Equal parts Sb and Sn tend to form a stronger alloy than if the antimony and tin are not equal. Lyman #2 is 5% of each but one can get a good alloy that cost less by making or buying Lyman #2 then cutting with lead for uses when 15 BHN hardness isn't required. If you start with 5 percent of each Sb and Sn then plain lead will reduce that evenly. In many cases coming down to 3 or even 2 percent of each is a nice alloy.

The standby pistol alloy of 50/50 COWW/Pb plus up to 2% tin is Lyman #2 cut with plain lead from 5/5 down to 1.5/1.5 I like Lyman #2 as a stock alloy to have on hand since it can work as is on high powered loads or be cut all the way down to mild revolver loads.

Check out the alloy calculator from the sticky in this forum. Plug in some different alloys you can buy then try cutting with different items or changing the amounts. Good way to see what you can make. It also gives an approximation of hardness. Note that Lyman #2 and Hardball are almost the same hardness but very different alloys. Hardball is commercial cast bullet alloy, less tin so less expensive to make. That can be made using a 50/50 mix of linotype and plain lead.

I punch the amounts from my stash into the calculator as a way to see what the whole pile would make in order to see if I need more of one thing or another to convert the whole pile into usable alloy. Ideal for me is if it all comes out to at least 3/3/94 alloy, or better. Good middle of the road rifle alloy that with Powder Coating could do most of what I might want. Can be cut a bit more with plain lead and yield a good revolver alloy.

Soft is the lead I find most commonly in the scrap yards so I don't feel compelled to keep it all for muzzle loaders but it is important when one finds some good soft lead to make sure to keep some of that aside for feeding the front stuffers. Still it is an ingredient same as any other. Good for mixing with store bought premium alloys to fill your pot without emptying your wallet.

I would start with our own S&S forum. See if what you need is for sale, or post a WTB for the alloy you want to buy. Price can save you something over foundry prices. There is an advantage to buying "known" alloy when starting out. Just so you know what you have and can control the alloy as a factor in bullet success. Foundry is always known alloy, many members will have had their alloy tested so buying some of that would also be a known alloy.

[Soundguy]

50/50 pure/Linotype for rifles.

A gas check should be used.

This.. use lino and pure....

[vikingson57]

Thanks. I looked up the Lyman #2 at Rotometal as well as the Super hard. I know LBT moulds are designed using COWW. I am looking at keeping both the 348 and the 33 to under max loads...say 2200 and 2000 and using H4895 or H4350. I mix my own 20/1 for my 45/70 but I load it with BP and keep the loads at the original power or just a bit under since I can only get about 62 grains of BP in the new brass. I am inclined to order up some of the Lyman #2 and see how is casts and shoots. I want to cast 230-240 gr in the 348 and 200-210 in the .33. Thanks for all your sage advice.

[Soundguy]

#2 is great for rifle loads. It's my usual go-to starting place..i generally mix up something similar.

[vikingson57]

Thank you. I intend on using gas checks..want to only push the 348 to around 2200 and the .33 to around 1900-2000. From these formulas I can do okay with my clean Lead and the rotometal super hard to get to #2. Or I can save the lead for my muzzle loader and a 20/1 mix for my 45/70/. Thanks again.

[vikingson57]

Thank you..sound advice. I want to hit a hardness of between 12 and 16 or so I have been told. I have read that COWW are at about 9 and Lyman #2 is around 15. My 20/1 is around 10 but this just seems to soft for pushing out to 2000fts. It works great on my PB loads for my 45/70s. Thanks again.

[GregLaROCHE]

Don’t forget about powder coating one day. A lot of people say you can get away using softer lead if you PC them.

[vikingson57]

By powder coating you are talking about Moly or Graphite or? I am a pretty simple guy and not sure if I will ever have the need to coat my bullets with anything besides lube. Thanks

[Soundguy]

By powder coating you are talking about Moly or Graphite or? I am a pretty simple guy and not sure if I will ever have the need to coat my bullets with anything besides lube. Thanks

Basically fancy plastic:

" Powder coating is based on polymer resin combined with pigments, curative, flow modifiers, leveling agents, and several other additives. All ingredients are melt mixed together, then cooled ".

[ABJ]

I would not get hung up on BHN alone. How you get there is more important. The alloy calculator does not do a good job at predicting BHN. Its close but not dead on.
The simple way is using a type metal and cutting with pure like "rogerdat" suggested. One I have used before is one lb of monotype to 3lbs of pure for 93/2.5/4.75. BHN should be very close to 15. Using one lb of #2 with 1/2 lb of pure gives you 93.3/3.3/3.3. I have made 3/3 alloy before and it measured around 14 to 14.5.
I hunted with the 3/3 alloy last wk and killed a whitetail the exit hole was over 2 inches. 35 rem, 200 grain fn, muzzle 1850 fps and distance was 60 ish yards. It did its job but it may be a little on the soft side for a raking shot. The mono recipe at these speeds does roll back a flat point to about .75 to an inch depending on how many ribs it hits.
Either of these two alloys will work and both are easy to make and maintain. Play with the alloy calculator and change the price column to match Rotometals prices and you can see what each alloy recipe will cost. I don't think you need to go to the expense of using #2 not because it won't work (it will) your spending money on more tin than you need to accomplish your goal.
Tony

[Land Owner]

Is it worth mixing my own...

My $0.02...this entire hobby is about shooting more and SAVING MONEY (!?!) through making alloys (mostly), casting alloys (mostly), fitting properly sized and lubed (or PC'd) boolits to the bore, and shooting alloys (mostly). Sometimes its about pure lead (for muzzies) or even all zinc (rarely). I cannot speak to your calibers, desired strength of alloy, or "end game" (competition or hunting). 49/49/2 percent Pb/WW/Sn is common, stretches the 10x more expensive tin out, fills mold lines well, runs at about 12-14 BHN, and does not "break the bank" as the greater percentage components can be found for free or nearly so.

[Rickf1985]

I would love to know where you are finding WW free!!!?? And even lead nowadays, free? I did just score 4 big buckets of weights from my tire shop for nothing BUT, I also just bought 1500.00 worth of tires and alignment there so it was far from free. And the lead haul from those buckets was only about 18-20% lead, 20% zinc and the rest steel.