I’m sure there is some simple explanation I’ve overlooked here, but we all have heard from either load manuals or word of mouth that 296/H-110 should not be down loaded more than X percent (I’ve heard various numbers from 3% to 10%) for magnum pistol use. But in my manual for 300 Blackout I’ve got data for sub sonic loads that are way below a magnum pistols pressure zone (22,700psi from Hornady) for 296/H-110 in 300 blackout, what gives?
It's not about pressure loadings, it's more about empty space. H110/W296 are hard to light, so if there's too much empty space, the powder won't light before the force from the primer drives the bullet out of the case, in which case, the powder won't burn, and if there's way to much empty space, the powder won't light, and you'll get squibs. There's also reports that it can tend to clump if it's too lose, which makes it burn erratically
The biggest issue I've had is unreliable ignition, which usually results in squibs, and if you're not paying attention, a squib 300 blackout sub can feel like a normal round and will usually eject. Recipe for a real bad day
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Last edited by nhyrum; 11-09-2021 at 02:10 PM.
The pressure build up is different between straight wall and bottle neck casings.
I think the bottle neck cartidges generally are much more efficient for generating pressure and velocity for a given powder charge mass and internal volume.
Remember that when the bullet starts moving the available volume increases for the expanding propellant gases to occupy.
Reduced loads for 296 or H110 are not recommended, at least this what I have read in several manuals.
I,m not sure why but I suspect possible SEE with a hard to light powder loose behind a bullet. Possibly because of the bullet being pushed into the rifling before the powder starts burning and then lighting the complete charge instead of a steady burn from the rear. That is just a guess as I'm not sure anyone knows exactly what happens when something goes bad inside the chamber/barrel of a gun. The manufactures do know that something causes bad results when 296/H110 is down loaded.
Those percentages are on the side of safety. When working up loads for unknown bullets or calibers, I've loaded well below 10% from what maximum turned out to be. H110 is a very single purpose powder. When you get too far down in pressure, it simply won't burn right. There is a narrow window where it goes from bang to a bullet stuck in the barrel. It's the same reason magnum primers are recommended. I've never seen it, but I've heard of people using standard primers that work great in 70-80 degrees, and then when they try and shoot in 0 degrees, the stuff doesn't even ignite. I use magnum primers myself, and get really good velocity spreads with them. I have tried standard primers, but I see no reason to use them.
So to answer your question, it is a safety recommendation, because below those, bloopers and stuck bullets become a very real possibility.
It's small particle size and higher percentage of deterrent coating to base grain make it hard to ignite.
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I figured it was something simple I was overlooking! Thanks guys!
Let me ask you this, If you load a below recommended charge and the use a filler, such as poly-fill, would that make it a safer round?
The filler holding the powder against the flash hole.
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Depends on how much DOWNLOADED you mean. It can be downloaded somewhat.
If not someone needs to tell Hodgdons and Hornady.
Hmmm... Now that's a good question... I might have to start getting some and playing around with it. I've got 45 colt loads that could definitely use some filler, since some of the light mouse fart loads I had to point the gun up and slowly lower it to get the rounds to fire...Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1
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The warning was for Winchester 296 powder, not Hodgdon H110 powder. Many years ago, they were 2 different powders.
Hodgdon has made them one powder now.
What year did they become the same? I have a 3rd edition Hornady book that was printed in 1981 with reduced loads in 357 Mag and 44 Mag.
Also a 1991 Hornady book with reduced loads and a 10th edition book with reduced loads.
I also have a 1987 Speer book with reduced 357 Mag and 44 Mag reloads
H110 was introduced in 1962, and was nothing but surplus powder from the 30 carbine, sold by Hodgdon. I'm fairly sure as far back as a 1970's Hodgdon manual shows the do not download warning. I assume Olin owned it at the time, but they started selling the same surplus powder as Winchester 296 at a later date. I'm not even sure it was listed in that 70's manual (edit: stupid me, of course no Winchester powders in a Hodgdon manual). you don't really start seeing 296 data until a little later it seems. In the Lyman cast bullet handbook (1980) that data for both H110 and 296 are almost identical, lot to lot variation. Since 1980, both powders have been newly manufactured, coming from the same plant, off the same line. Hodgdon did not buy Winchester powders until 2006, and had nothing to do with them being the same.
So maybe for a couple years in the late 70's they were not technically the exact same (one being surplus, and the other newly made), but as far as all the info I can find, they always have been exactly the same formula. H110 has had the warning as long as W296 has.
W296-1960. H110- 1970. Fired both in 44 mag. Different powders.
They were, but I've personally seen a letter written by the manufacturer of the two say that they are now one in the same.W296-1960. H110- 1970. Fired both in 44 mag. Different powders.
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I'm not saying you did not use a 296 in 1960, but it was not Winchester 296. W296, the best source I can find show it came out in 1973, but I can't find a single source from then that shows it. The earliest manual I have that has it is the 1980 Lyman cast bullet handbook #3.W296-1960. H110- 1970. Fired both in 44 mag. Different powders.
If you were using a different 296, that would explain the confusion. Hodgdon's H110, and Winchesters 296 both were surplus 30 carbine powder, then manufactured when that ran out. They always were the exact same thing.
I can tell you positively that 18 grains of 296 with Saeco #315 in .308 which shoots well in Az at 80 degs F will blow up a Remington 700 at 45 degs F in Wapwallopen, PA
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The question remains about downloading. It can be downloaded within reason.
Why not just use a different powder if you want lower vel?
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