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Thread: Acceptable Hunting Accuracy at How Far?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man HD.375's Avatar
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    Acceptable Hunting Accuracy at How Far?

    Gday guys, loving the forum.... have a hard time finding anything better to do at a night time than scan forums for key topics and further delve into rabbit holes .... particularly levergunnin with cast.......

    So ive been pickng up here and there, that some fellas own layzers and some own 100 year old tack drivers.......... This could be an intranet thing but some do post occaisonal target photos backing up their claims...
    not here for that arguement rather a discussion around Acceptable Accuracy for Hunting deer sized game, from a Lever gun, Open sighted..........

    Do you shoot 50m or 100m with 3 shots before claiming the group size? i see some guys shoot 75 yards/m , claiming 3/4 inch 3 shots at 75...........
    i see some realists out there commenting their experiences, some mention 3 inches at 100 yards/m is Great hunting accuracy from Model 94s etc...


    Do you prefer a reasonable sized target 6 inch +, an point an shoot to find where your max is? without holding over?
    or do you know your limit and set up rifle and load to maximise its uses... EG- offset 100m zero? or bang on 100m zero for 150max. etc... your mileage will vary from the next.



    im not totally stoked on the accuracy i am getting with this new bullet , but im not against it either, We have shot some Deer together now but well under 100m each time, 50 & 60m . so im due to punch a 3 shot group out this week,,,,,, wanna hear where i should be shootin... 50-75 or 100?

    Thanks! look forward to the chat n hearing your experiences
    Model 94 XTR .375win (38-55+p) - Australian Sambar Deer Hunter.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    I test at the bench with a Tac Driver bag and a rear bag to get the best possible stability. I start at 50 yds to see what is good not so good, good loads are moved out to 100 yards. Sight adjustments are made and further testing until I am satisfied with the accuracy. I also check and make sure I can put 5 rounds into a 10” circle at 100 yds. If you can’t hit what you’re aiming at all is for nothing.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    I think that it depends on where you hunt and the terrain. I hunt in the woods where a 100 yard shot would be next to impossible. If you are hunting on the edge of a field, a300 yard shot may be possible.
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
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    Paper plate range is the criteria by which I determine my hunting rifle accuracy. Doesn't matter if I'm shooting at 25 yards, or 400 yards. If I can't reliably put my shots on a paper plate, (around 8"), I'd better improve the rifle, or the optics, or shorten up the distance. This method also determines whether or not I should be shooting from a rest, or am competent enough to shoot off-hand. jd
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A lot of the needed accuracy also depends on the game being hunted. Ground squirrels, prairie dogs woodchucks require better loads at distance than deer do. On a deer rifle I wotk for 1 1/2 MOA accuracy while the varmint rifles I push for 1/2 - 3/4 MOA. I want a clean humane harvest of the animals.

    Use your duplex reticle to your advantage. The "circle" imposed by the broad beams is 6 moa 3 moa in a side, a bult in range finder and bullet drop compensator. For longer shots simply use the lower beam as a post

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
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    I could hunt with a rifle that keeps all shots in 3" at 50-75 yards on deer sized game . Fortunately the guns I own all do much better than that. If a rifle won't do 1 1/2-2" at 100 yards off the bench it goes down the road . I have owned for a short time many that would not. Most shots in my area are short being 75 yards or less as you normally can't see farther than that to make a reliable shot . Mostly woods hunting with smaller clearings where I hunt , good handgun hunting range .
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master 444ttd's Avatar
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    in the area i hunt 50+/- yards is normal. a 100 yards could be done, but it is unlikely. i limit myself to 150 yards. scoped rifle should go under 2" and aperture and open sights is around 4". if i need it further than 150 yards, then i go to ruger #1 in 270 win. and 140gr hornady sst and imr4350.


    9.3x57 and 275gr wfn gc


    35/30-30(sighting it in)


    30-40 krag with 165gr ranch dog(1 - 6 are sighting shots, 7-10 is the group)


    all were shot on a bench with sandbags at 100 yards
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  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    I am blessed to have some pretty accurate lever actions in my arsenal. My 1967 Marlin Glenfield 30 will put three into an inch or less at 100 yards consistently with it's favorite load. Still getting the others lined out, but none are worse than 3" at 100 yards.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    My deer hunting area is too thick to get a shot much over 50 yards so just about anything will give sufficient accuracy. But naturally, I want the best I can get and usually settle for about 2 MOA for my cast bullet loads.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    My Winchester 94 does a about 1.75 at 75 yards. I don’t try for better. I’m content with that. Some folks ain’t ever content. I practice offhand shooting a fair amount. Rarely from then bench, and never bagged.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    I accuracy test at 100 yards and consider 10 shot groups to be the Gold Standard. As it has been long stated, there are no lucky ten shot groups. The groups must also be repeatable. With this standard, lot of verbal groups and pics of groups become meaningless.

    Military and commercial hunting rifles (30-06)will turn in about 1.5 - 2.00 MOA with good cast bullet loads by this standard. Do some tweaking with the bedding and this can be cut by .25 - .50 MOA.

    My heavy barrel Remington 700VS (308 Win) is a true MOA cast bullet rifle.

    Leverguns are different critters. My Marlin 336A (30-30) is a rifle and will turn in 2.5 - 3.0 MOA groups by above standard. Winchester and Marlin carbines, with the bands are good for 3.0 - 400 MOA. I shoot all leverguns single shot as if the tubular mag is filled, the point of impact will shift a smidge as the rounds move back in the tube.

    I am well aware that many claim better accuracy that what I have posted, but these are by my accuracy standard, which is much higher than most folks. I can produce much smaller 5 shot groups and even smaller 3 shot groups.

    Hunting accuracy for me is 3 - 4 MOA at point of impact. Most sporting rifles can meet this standard with ease.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 11-09-2021 at 03:28 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hey HD.375,, welcome to the fire ,, different rifle's ,different folks,, all doing " IT " their way. I'v been visiting here awhile , good folks and very good info. , hope y'a stay around and visit.

    coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
    OH ! i shoot 40-60 win.( Chaparral ) >
    Last edited by Hootmix; 11-09-2021 at 04:19 PM. Reason: add on.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Welcome, once upon a time I could shoot open sights. Nowadays, due to getting longer in the tooth. Aperture front sights are required. My favorite lever guns also have Montana Vintage Arms Soule Tang Sights. With a good front aperture matching the target, good groups are still possible. A receiver sight on your 94 Big Bore 375, will greatly improve your ability to shoot consistent repeatable groups. I agree with Char-Gar on ten shot groups for testing out a accuracy load. When it comes to using a rifle for hunting purposes I stick to three shot repeatable groups. Spent most of my hunting years in areas where shots averaged 200 meters. Acceptable hunting accuracy with a Levergun would be three shots in 6" @ 200 meters. I generally test cast bullet hunting loads, at 200 meters. My favorite lever gun is a 1876 Winchester in 45-75
    Rick
    Last edited by Rick B; 11-09-2021 at 09:35 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Accuracy is a function of the bullet, load, rifle and shooter.

    "How far" is a function of accuracy from the various types of shots (rested on a pack/blind window, prone with a sling, sitting, kneeling, off hand. off hand at a moving target) that a shooter can deliver under stress (buck fever). The same shooter and gun/ammo will have a different "how far" as a result. People who have been snipers and/or are competitive shooters will generally have a higher skill level and can make shots most others should not attempt.

    Then there is the "risk" factor. A wounding shot on a deer is unfortunate, but most people find it acceptable. For example, if someone knows their ethical range is 100 yards and sees a 12 point buck at 150 yards, there is a good chance they will risk the shot if they cannot get closer or they will soon run out of daylight.

    No easy answer.
    Last edited by dverna; 11-09-2021 at 11:50 PM.
    Don Verna


  15. #15
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    All my centerfire rifles are zeroed at 100 yards with cast.
    Often times I can do a little better, but I can consistently hold a 2" five shot group shooting off sand bags.
    Open sights on a Winchester .30-30, the groups are a bit bigger, so I didn't shoot deer past about 75 yards.

    I don't hunt any more, but when I did and was going to shoot past 100 yards, I'd re-zero at 100 yards with
    .30 caliber Sierra Game Kings. Where I hunted, ya weren't going to get a shot much past 200 yards.

    Even with a pumped up cast boolit in .30-06, I wasn't comfortable shooting a deer past 100 yards.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 11-09-2021 at 08:09 PM.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I tend to start out with everything zeroed two inches high at 100 yards, then shoot groups at various distances to verify the trajectory curve I have in my head agrees with reality.

    This used to work out that my .30-06 (and others of that class) hit very close to POA/POI at 200. It also made the .30-30 class cartridges more or less point and shoot within 150 or so.

    No matter the gun/cartridge, I want a solid zero verified on paper at a repeatable range. It doesn't matter if the place I am hunting today only has 47 yard shots, what about tomorrow when I can easily see 300 yards? If I'm carrying a .30-30 tomorrow, I had better learn how to sneak quietly overnight.

    The one time I went hunting with my .270 Wby Mag zeroed at 400 yards (planned to hunt a bean field edge), I ended up shooting Stubby (three points on one side, and a broken antler on the other) at a whopping 35 yards.

    I also do not agree with adjusting your scope in the field for the shot. If the deer or whatever is too far for your basic zero, he is too far to ethically shoot. At least to me.

    Thinking back over the years, I think I could have killed all the deer I have shot with an iron sighted .30-30. At least when I could still see iron sights.

    Robert

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    a different take (for hunting)
    where does the first shot go? clean cold barrel shot is the money shot - then two quick follow up shots - whats that look like ?
    Who gets to fire ten properly aimed shots hunting ? helicopter hog cullers ---is about the only ones

    most lever guns I have owned will "walk" on the target, usually up wards, four to six inches at 100 yards is not uncommon, its more obvious with blackpowder - I reckon because BP heats the barrel much more and quicker than the other stuff - have had a couple that dont do it. (they are gems and NOT for sale)

  18. #18
    Boolit Man HD.375's Avatar
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    Great Discussion!

    cool to hear some of you guy method in determining these factors- how far, accuracy and something else i forgot.

    -some good points like
    - Cold bore and where does IT land.
    -Paper plate i think is a Great method and something i use myself / or a gong at varied distances often unknown (apart from past 50 an under 200) for my point an shoot max.
    - repeatable 3 shot groups or a repeatable on any day 10 shot group (if ya got the coin to burn da powder(au is $$)
    - original solid rest for zero, but off hand an field type positions used to fire upon said 'vital target' .

    * there was some Questions thrown my way i feel- here goes.

    - my Model 94 is aperture sight setup-has been for 10yr no problem alot more accurate than buckhorn * did file front bead off an thinner.
    - no scopes for this matter just opens and typically levergun cals.


    sorry got side tracked however thats the gist, good to mix an match some theorys too in our own time
    Model 94 XTR .375win (38-55+p) - Australian Sambar Deer Hunter.

  19. #19
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HD.375 View Post
    - my Model 94 is aperture sight setup-has been for 10yr no problem alot more accurate than buckhorn * did file front bead off an thinner.
    The aperture is naturally more accurate. You have a 360 degree circle to use for aligning the front sight with.
    The thinner or smaller the front sight/bead is, the more precise the target picture will be.
    Hence- this is why serious target shooters use them.

    The big claim to fame for using a buckhorn/rear leaf rear sight and a larger front sight bead is that it is faster to acquire the target,
    your field of vision is larger, and most people do better with it on a moving target or conditions of poorer visibility.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  20. #20
    Boolit Man HD.375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    The aperture is naturally more accurate. You have a 360 degree circle to use for aligning the front sight with.
    The thinner or smaller the front sight/bead is, the more precise the target picture will be.
    Hence- this is why serious target shooters use them.

    The big claim to fame for using a buckhorn/rear leaf rear sight and a larger front sight bead is that it is faster to acquire the target,
    your field of vision is larger, and most people do better with it on a moving target or conditions of poorer visibility.
    agree, thats my understanding of it too
    Model 94 XTR .375win (38-55+p) - Australian Sambar Deer Hunter.

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