This year I plan to hunt deer with a 357 maximum

[HD.375]

I’ve got one more doe yesterday with my TC Encore 357 max mgm barrel rifle. I shot it from a sitting position to about 220 yards. I was surprised to see her go down like hit by lightning. I aimed at the shoulder high but I hit her on the neck. She was broadside. The 170gr Speer GDSP bullet went through and through. No need tracking it.
This gun combination has become my favorite for hunting.
I need to develop another load for next year since I loaded all my 170gr GDSP already and Speer has discontinued that product.

i think there is a fascination and a real draw card to LEver guns, Cast boolits and hunting with them... particularly when not boasting published Data from J bullets, I find the researching , discussing questioning, doubting and excitement all plays a huge part in my cycle of lever gun hunting.......... the above post basically confirms this.

You intially asked if it were guna be enough etc, Now you dumped what sounds like 3 deers on their Ass with said Combo, an now you feel quite Confident and Content with what you created.

this itself, is a major draw for me on Lever guns......... but, Now i want a 30-30 AND a 357!!!!

[Camba]

P Flados,
I put together some ladder loads using the vv N110 powder, S&B srp, and Hornady 158gr XTP bullets, and tested my T/C Encore rifle with a 21” MGM barrel.
I have nothing but success!
All 5 loads gave me less than an inch at 50 yards. The primers did not show any high pressure sign. The one with the heaviest powder load (#5), got two out of 5 cases a little sticky.
My best groups seem to be #2 and #4.
#3 is also OK if I ignore the flier.
Next time I will bring the chrono to measure velocity.
The picture showing the fired cases are from top to bottom (#1-#5 loads).



Thank you.
Camba


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[P Flados]

Good looking groups.

Out of curiosity, do you know where your 158 gr XTP and N110 loads are with respect to seating depth and percent fill. Once you get chrono data it will be interesting to compare with QL numbers. With accurate seating depth and percent fill, some of my Max loads were within 20 fps.

Second item, I was wondering if you know the max recommended terminal velocity for the 158 XTP. Some folks with the 350L reported over expansion (no pass through) with short range shots and bullets under 170 grs.

Third item, I recognize the case in the middle of the bottom row on your post. I bought 3 boxes (150 pieces) of that brass for $27.54 total from "The Silhouette". Of course that was in late 1985. The Dan Wesson gun was $314.55 and the shipping to my FFL was $3.00. A few pieces of the brass have split, some have pockets that are a little loose, but I still use it for "just shooting" mid level loads.

[Camba]

P Flados,
1. I will check my notes. I remember seeing a seating dept of 1/8” or maybe a little more like perhaps half way between the base of the bullet and the crimp.
The loads eventually was compressed somewhat.
2. I have hear both ways the same story. Perhaps they do not hold well at short distance. I will continue to use the Speer GDSP 170gr for deer. It did well.
3. The case you were looking at, I got it along with 50 cases I’ve got in trade in this site. Only 3 to 5 cases were like that.

I will be checking velocity on those loads to see how fast they go. I will let you know.
Camba


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[Camba]

P Flados,
I’ve got more info to answer your questions:
The OAL for all the loads listed is 2.069”
The 25.0gr is almost full case. The 24.1gr is not as full but close. Both of those loads were compressed loads.
The bullet is seated about .19” into the case.
I will attach pictures later.
I am curious of what your QL program says.
Camba


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[P Flados]

Warning: The data in this post reflects calculated pressures (not test data) and the pressure limit was set for 65,000 psi based use in a TC Encore where the gun is also factory chambered for the 270 Winchester. This data is not recommended for any gun without proper understanding of working up loads and proper understanding of gun limitations.

I plugged in the 25 grs and played around to confirm that your specific components match what is in Quickload (QL). QL said that 25 grs should come to 0.064" below the top of a case that is 1.600" long. With an extruded powder I think the program is assuming "well settled" instead of just poured into the case. With the picture as shown, I would say that the QL assumptions for powder density and case capacity are "close enough".

And just for your info, other QL parameters for this load include:

The 158 XTP is 0.675" long giving a seating depth of 0.206" with a 2.069" OAL and 1.600" case.

I set QL to run a table with 0.25 gr powder increments:

Cartridge          : .357 Maximum (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .357, 158, Hornady HP/XTP 35750
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.069 inch = 52.55 mm
Barrel Length      : 21.0 inch = 533.4 mm
Powder             : Vihtavuori N110 *C
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms
-09.4   98    21.75   2169    1651   39519   3015    100.0    1.158
-08.3   99    22.00   2189    1681   40872   3029    100.0    1.142
-07.3  100    22.25   2208    1711   42269   3043    100.0    1.127
-06.3  101    22.50   2228    1741   43710   3057    100.0    1.113
-05.2  103    22.75   2247    1771   45198   3071    100.0    1.099
-04.2  104    23.00   2266    1801   46735   3085    100.0    1.085
-03.1  105    23.25   2285    1832   48321   3098    100.0    1.071
-02.1  106    23.50   2304    1862   49960   3111    100.0    1.058
-01.0  107    23.75   2322    1892   51653   3124    100.0    1.045
+00.0  108    24.00   2341    1923   53401   3137    100.0    1.032
+01.0  109    24.25   2360    1953   55208   3150    100.0    1.020
+02.1  110    24.50   2378    1984   57076   3162    100.0    1.007  ! Near Maximum !
+03.1  112    24.75   2396    2015   59007   3174    100.0    0.995  ! Near Maximum !
+04.2  113    25.00   2415    2045   61003   3186    100.0    0.984  ! Near Maximum !
+05.2  114    25.25   2433    2076   63068   3197    100.0    0.972  ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    108    24.00   2397    2016   63939   3004    100.0    0.977  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    108    24.00   2252    1780   43097   3325     99.8    1.110

[Camba]

Excellent data from the QL program!
I will be testing two loads (24.5 and 25.0) for velocity and will let you know.
I am impressed with the QL load calculator. Definite helps when developing loads.
Thank you for the info.
Camba


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[P Flados]

If the result do not match very good, the "Ba" parameter for the powder can be tweaked. Right now, most powders I have been able to check out do pretty good with the default parameters. From my experiences, the one powder that QL does the worst with is Lil Gun. Then again, based on what I have read, Lil Gun seems to be a little weird and not entirely predictable.

Check out your OALs for other bullets you might want to run with N110 and post them.

I will run them through QL with the table output.

[Camba]

Will do.


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[Jason Gilmour]

I don have much to add but I love reading about the 357 max.I have 2 handi rifle and would really lik a 357. Lil Gun and 4227 are my favorite powders. I have used both cast and jacketed to take deer.

[cwtebay]

An 1892 in 357 Max would be pretty darn neat.

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[Camba]

That would be awesome!
I thought I read something somewhere that either made a modification to a 30-30 size action with a 357 mag marlin lever.
It seem too complicated to pursue; but that would have been a good lever gun for me. I am happy with the tc encore single shot rifle.


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[P Flados]

Back when the whole "straight wall deer rules" first started to gain momentum, Remington really missed the boat. They had put their name on the Max and at the time they owned Marlin. For the factory, tweaking a 30-30 lever to accept 357 max would have been easy. With less marketing than Winchester did for the 350L, they would have had plenty of lever lovers just itching to try one.

[rockrat]

And I would have been in line to buy a levergun in 357max.

[Meatpuppet]

Today I loaded up three different 180gr swaged, jacketed bullets. The jacket is an annealed 9mm casing, drawn down to .355dia, an Accurate Molds 32-120C cast boolet as a core, and then swaged up to .358 in BT Sniper's Wide Meplat, S6 Ogive spire point and Hollowpoint Point forming Dies.

The S6 Ogive and the HP are sitting on 21gr of VV N110 and the Wide Meplat is on 21.5gr VV N110. Overall length for all of them is 2.20oal. They should chrono out at around 1930fps/1500fpe in a 16" barrel. I dropped my powder charge by 0.5gr in each because I was getting all that I needed and diddnt want a compressed load.

[Camba]

P Flados,
I tested the the following loads for the 357 maximum 21” bbl to see the velocity and here are the results:
1. 158 xtp, 25.0 gr v n110, s&b srp,
OAL 2.079” ave. Vel. 2,388.
Max vel 2,416 (twice)
Min vel 2,338 fps
Velocities: 2,338; 2,416; 2,416; 2,375; 2,396.

2. 158 xtp, 24.3gr v n110, s&b srp, oal 2.079”
Avg vel: 2,319 fps
Max vel: 2,340 fps
Mix vel: 2,302 fps
Shots: 2,315; 2,329; 2,302; 2,308; 2,340

3. This one is for 350 legend
147 xtp, 24.3gr vn110, s&b srp, oal 2.130”
Avg cel: 2,304 fps
Max vel: 2,310 fps
Min vel: 2,297 fps
Shots: 2,303; 2,307; 2,301; 2,298; 2,310

What is interesting is how close your QL values were with respect to the actual testing. Kudos to you on the knowledge of entering the parameters to the program.
Thank you.
Camba


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[Camba]

Beautiful looking swaged bullets, Meatpuppet!


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[Daekar]

Beautiful looking swaged bullets, Meatpuppet!


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It really is. You should see his work in person, every darn boolit is a work of art!

[P Flados]

P Flados,

What is interesting is how close your QL values were with respect to the actual testing. Kudos to you on the knowledge of entering the parameters to the program.
Thank you.
Camba

With my 357AR Max, I collected chrono data while playing around with small changes in charges and AOLs. Shortly after this I got the Quickload program and went back & plugged in loads. I found the program to be very good for velocity with the powders I was using as long as I was careful with the parameters that define percent fill (bullet length, case length, case capacity and AOL).

For you 25.0 gr 357 Max load, I ran with your 2.079 AOL and got 2397 fps calculated vs. your 2388 fps
For you 24.3 gr 357 Max load, I ran with your 2.079 AOL and got 2346 fps calculated vs. your 2319 fps

I also ran your 350L load. I am not sure if it has the same barrel length, and we have not confirmed the case capacity / powder density info is good.

For you 24.3 gr 350L load, I ran with your 2.130 AOL and got 2356 fps calculated vs. your 2304 fps

Are your velocities corrected back to muzzle, or are they the raw numbers at some distance out?

[Camba]

My chrono was about 12’ in front of the myzzle.
The 350 legend is a Henry ssr 22” bbl


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