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Thread: 44 Magnum, .429 or .430 sizer?

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Seems that SAAMI has two different standards for the .44 mag. Revolvers are a thou or two smaller than the rifle bore. Might need a better source than me to confirm.

  2. #22
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by 725 View Post
    Seems that SAAMI has two different standards for the .44 mag. Revolvers are a thou or two smaller than the rifle bore. Might need a better source than me to confirm.
    I got one of each size mold (heaviest and gas checked for the size) and a sizer in each size.

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    The OP's assumptions are not valid. As others have said, you must have the firearm in front of you and know it's critical measurements or else he will be like a dog chasing his tail.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    The OP's assumptions are not valid. As others have said, you must have the firearm in front of you and know it's critical measurements or else he will be like a dog chasing his tail.
    (Attempting to sound like Jerry Reed) Look now son, if LEE Precision, the most affordable brand out there, and my preferred brand, only makes the .429 and the .430 bullet molds and the .429 and the .430 sizers, I'm betting they will probably fit a majority of the guns that are on the market.
    I'll just have to make sure and check before I purchase a revolver or lever gun, to see if they will fit what I got, if not, I can either keep looking to find an appropriate firearm, or simply purchase another bullet mold and sizer from somebody else.
    GOD FORBID, the idiots in charge try to outlaw everything one would need to reload, if so, I already have somewhat of a head start for the upcoming turmoil.
    Also, it's not like I have a $500 investment that will go bust if it's not a perfect match, and there is always the "sell anything that does not work for you on EBay" option.

    Yeah, Jerry Reeds voice was perfect!

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archangel2003 View Post
    (Attempting to sound like Jerry Reed) Look now son, if LEE Precision, the most affordable brand out there, and my preferred brand, only makes the .429 and the .430 bullet molds and the .429 and the .430 sizers, I'm betting they will probably fit a majority of the guns that are on the market.
    I'll just have to make sure and check before I purchase a revolver or lever gun, to see if they will fit what I got, if not, I can either keep looking to find an appropriate firearm, or simply purchase another bullet mold and sizer from somebody else.
    GOD FORBID, the idiots in charge try to outlaw everything one would need to reload, if so, I already have somewhat of a head start for the upcoming turmoil.
    Also, it's not like I have a $500 investment that will go bust if it's not a perfect match, and there is always the "sell anything that does not work for you on EBay" option.

    Yeah, Jerry Reeds voice was perfect!
    Very interesting approach, but not my approach.

    I hear you saying to have faith in Lee and if that faith proves ill-founded buy and try again. Then there is the punt position, whereby you purchase a firearm so you can use your cheap tool. What is not clear is how you will determine your unpurchased gun will be happy with your tools.

    My approach is that knowledge trumps blind faith in a tool maker, knowledge forms the basis for purchase and the purchase will produce the desired results. It goes like this: 1. Buy the gun. 2. Take the measurements. 3. Buy the correct tools. 4. Experience joy with your positive results.

    Our minds do not sync, so do as you please. I will say, I continue to be amazed at the number of people that come to this board asking for counsel, but not wanting counsel that disagrees with their preformed notions. They are looking for agreement and not information. Seems like a waste of time to me.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  6. #26
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    Jerry Reed (AKA:archangel2003)
    Welcome to the castboolits forum.
    I edited my previous advice, because I didn't realize your were a beginner to casting...your join date confused me.

    44mag guns (from all manufacturers) have quirks that you will likely learn about along the way, if you find yourself loving this caliber.

    With that said, I offer the following advice for your questions and comments about 44mag. Since you are sure of your direction to buy tools before the gun, Look for the Lee 430 molds and the Lee 430 boolit sizer. That will be a great start. Look for a good "Hardball" alloy. Lastly, look for a good manual, I suggest the Lyman castbullet handbook 4th ed. Be sure to read the entire first half of the manual, then read it again, that info will help give you a good foundation of this hobby.
    Good luck.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  7. #27
    Boolit Man
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    If I was new at casting for 44 caliber guns I would get sizer dies in .430 through .433. That should fix you up fine for handguns and rifles from pre-war to present.

  8. #28
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    With the recent post above, I checked my .44 revolvers. The results are interesting.

    S&W 696 .44 Spec .428
    S&W Hwy Patrolman .430 (Converted to .44 Special)
    Ruger Bisley Blackhawk .44 Mag .431
    Freedom Arms 97 .44 Spec.429

    Boolits that I have cast and sized .431 w/gc, have worked well in all four guns. All shooting was done on the same day as I don't get to go to the range very often. I was most concerned with the performance of the FA 97 since it was the last purchased and had the tightest throats. Also the most consistent along with the converted Model 28 S&W. The other two had throats that at least one chamber differed by .001. That's not enough to give me the vapors.
    John
    W.TN

  9. #29
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    All my 44’s in rifle and pistols slug at .429. I size at .430 with a lee sizer in all. My 77/44 shoots sub MOA with thr alloy and powder combos it likes. Did some old posts on it a few years back.

  10. #30
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    .431 as long as it chambers in your gun your good to go, this has been good for me in a bunch of 44 cal guns

  11. #31
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    A few years back I had a Marlin 44 mag that slugged at .433+. I enlarged my Lee sizer accordingly. I now shoot a Rossi 92 in 44 mag that slugs at 431. I was surprised that the .433 sized boolits chamber & shoot just fine through it.

    By the way, a Marlin service rep told me that my .433+ bore was within specs.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterAZ View Post
    I use .430 or .431 for all my 44Mag loads, depending on the gun. I haven't used a .429 sizer on anything 44 (.429), but there may be some applications for it. Try pushing a sized boolit though the cylinder of your revolver, you will want it to pass through with a slight bit of resistance. If it just drops through it may be on the small side. Just my $02.
    Same here - .430 - .431. Shooting a Ruger BH in 44 Special and a Rossi R92 44 Magnum. .429 rattles around going down the bore of both.
    Britons shall never be slaves.

  13. #33
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    Can you hear it?
    John
    W.TN

  14. #34
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    Archangel, this "precise cast bullet diameter" question is a frequent reloading topic but gets WAY too fussy. Discussions about esotoric lead bullet diameters of a thou or less to insure a supposed perfect fit to a new guy's firearm while telling him nothing about the only thing that matters, i.e., his rational on-target accuracy, is NOT the right way to go; truth is, handguns and cast bullets are not Bench Rest tools.

    NO ONE is going from bug hole groups to 36" groups on paper at 100 yards because of a thou difference - or much more - in lead bullet diameter! In fact, I'd bet that no one here can prove an observable difference in their own handheld ammo accuracy due solely to a spread of as much as 3-4 thou in sized diameter. (That's why Lee's popular and near factory "perfect" diameter cast bullets actually shoot so well with no sizing at all for so many people!)

    IME, for a .44 magnum, cast 220+ gr bullets hard (with or without a GC), size them to .429", use a good lube, load them to at least 90% of book max and shoot them. Varying your powder charges up and down a few tenths will probably make a bigger difference on your targets than playing with costly +/- .001" increments of bullet diameter!

    If the bullet starts undersized at all, a fast moving and heavy magnum bullet will slump back at ignition and, at the same time, the body will swell as large as the chamber and bore will allow - it's called obturation and it happens with jacketed bullets as well, so no undersize initial diameter boolit will matter. On the other hand, if a boolit starts too large, the chamber and bore will size it to a very precise fit when it has traveled it's own length.

    So - start off with whatever you have. It will take thousands of rounds (and maybe years of experience) before you can reload OR shoot well enough to see any difference at all in your sized groups.

    NOTE to outraged and indignant readers: This tome is only about .44 and .357 magnums and it ONLY fully applies to man-sized stout loads using normal (but heavy-for-caliber) boolits. Lady cartridges (meaning anything starting with a number less than "4") while shooting light weight lady bullets over puny lady powder charges are much more finicky. All of the low recoil little cartridges - including Europe's current 9mm fad - tend to be much more accuracy sensitive to carefully prefitted hard cast boolits. IMHO of course.
    Last edited by 1hole; 01-10-2022 at 06:24 PM.

  15. #35
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    I have a NEF Handi rechambered to 445 SM. Slugged it and it came out right at .433". .433" boolits were only so-so, but once powder coated, things improved greatly.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkf View Post
    I size to .432" most of the time. I buy most sizers under the size I need by .001" or .002" and then polish them to size on my lathe. Reason I do that is because many sizers are rather rough on the inside. Especially Lee sizers. Polishing them to myself allows me to get the sizer bore very very smooth.
    This^^^^^^ is what I do also after many tries to get the right diameter for a 44 rifle. It also works in my 44 revolvers.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    I size my revo boolits to .429 after coating and checking, if needed.
    Size is determined by a couple of factors that need to be known to make a good cast boolit
    bore diameter and cylinder throat diameter make your choice dependent of those
    I will also ad if you size your boolits 0.002 over the bore dia and fire your boolit through chambers that are smaller than the bore you are wasting lead your boolits are now sized to you cylinder throats
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  18. #38
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    I have to grin when I read reloading experts having fun agonizing about sizing cast handgun bullets by 1 or 2 magic thousants. However, no handguns or cast bullets are going to shoot .5 moa groups anyway so sweating about sizing 44 mags by .429" vs .430" is an exercise in futility.

    When fired over anywhere near max loads the noses of most magnum cast bullets will easily slump to quite a bit more than is needed/required to obturate the bore and nothing sizes a bullet to precisely fit the bore better than the barrel itself.

    My old Mod. 29 shoots max 2400/H-110 charged, moderately hard .429/250 gr. SWC bullets into 4" hundred yard groups (off a bench of course); no tweaking the starting diameter by a couple of thou is going to improve it. And it sure wouldn't instantly start wildly shooting 12 moa groups if I made them two or three thou larger than that.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master S.B.'s Avatar
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    If you're in the dark how and what about the other calibers you list? Same rules/suggestions for all of them.
    Steve
    "The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
    Life member NRA, USPSA, ISRA
    Life member AF&AM 294

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamogunr View Post
    Can you hear it?
    No, my ears ain't as good as they used to be, but the .429's key holed at 15 yards in my Henry in 44 Special/44 Magnum.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Britons shall never be slaves.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check