Bought a roa from a pawn shop in OK over the internet. Had to ship it through my ffl. Apparently it can too easily be converted. Not sure why that makes a difference. Just found it odd.
How much powder do yall throw into your roa? I'd like to not need cornmeal.
Load 32 to 38 grains of 2 or 3 Fg under 225 conical, a bit more with round ball. Essentially all you can cram in the chamber and still seat a ball to clear the chamber mouth. It is BS regarding FFL requirement as far as I and my FFL know. Just recently bought one from FFL with no paper work.
To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.
Shouldn’t have had to use an FFL. Either way; cool revolver!
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Nice acquisition. You will enjoy it.
Originally Posted by Tom_in_AZ
+1 Yes, some sellers and/or FFL's don't know the law....
The possibility of cartridge conversions for muzzleloaders do not fall under the GCA-68 on fireams.
That said, I load my ROA with a 457" RB set over 30grs Holy Black, topped with a slather of Crisco cooking lard to both seal the chamber mouths, lube the ball, and make cleanup a snap..
.
Now I lay me down to sleep
A gun beside me is what I keep
If I awake, and you're inside
The coroner's van is your next ride
You are going to enjoy it. Without a cartridge convertor is does not legally require an FFL for the Feds.
Some shop's do require FFL's mostly because of some of the state law's in the anti-gun states. Some states classify C&B as firearms.
Cabela's lost a case when they shipped a C&B to a prohibited person in Ohio and it was used in a crime.
It's to cover their butts.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 10-30-2021 at 06:50 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Just heard from my ffl.
His atf rep got back to him and said that its because it can be converted to fire full power cartridges.
I made some paper cartridges for it last night but I only put in 30gr. I'll remake them and bump it up to 40 I guess since using round ball.
News to me, but whatever.
BS. That applies to all C&B revolvers. He is lying or his ATF contact doesn't know the law.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Can standard piettas etc be converted to fire smokeless cartridges?
That being said, I don't believe he'd lie to me, and I couldn't speak for his contact at the ATF.
Yes. If he is not lying and does any volume of firearm sales at best he is not very bright.
https://taylorsfirearms.com/hand-gun...nversions.html
https://www.buffaloarms.com/cartridg...cylinders.html
https://www.oldsouthfirearms.com/con...cylinders.aspx
https://www.bing.com/search?q=cartri...er%20revolvers
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I would lean toward the latter, I've asked two different ATF contacts recently with an NFA question and got two completely different answers. And they were both in the "expert" division. It's the same as police officers "quoting law" when there is no such law but for some reason they believe there is, I had a Florida State Trooper tell me I couldn't carry hollow points in my CCW because they're against the law. Huh?
But I did learn this recently, there is a black powder front stuffer that requires shipment to an FFL, the Traditions Nitrofire rifle.
Also regarded as firearms under GCA-68 (google: nef huntsman ffl restriction ):
Thompson Center Encore 209-50
The H&R 1871 Huntsman
Mauser 98 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
Remington 870 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
Mossberg 500 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
.
Now I lay me down to sleep
A gun beside me is what I keep
If I awake, and you're inside
The coroner's van is your next ride
Nothing new there. The TC Contenders/Encores and the Savage ML 10 original required an FFL since they use a standard cartridge receiver. Been that way for over 40 years. Same for any of the cartridge receivers converted to muzzleloaders. Same for the newly introduced firestick breech charging designs. The old Remington ML did not require and FFL, however, the new Remington U.M.L. does since it's a standard 700 action using primed cases.
Per the ATF
“ATF has classified certain muzzle loading models as firearms. All of these models incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm that is capable of accepting barrels designed to fire conventional rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition. These muzzle loading models do not meet the definition of “antique firearm” as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16), and are “firearms” as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3). Furthermore, as firearms, these and similar models, regardless of the barrel installed on the firearm or provided with the firearm, are subject to all provisions of the GCA. Persons who purchase these firearms from licensed dealers are required to fill out a Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473, and are subject to a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) check. Felons and other prohibited persons may not lawfully receive or possess these firearms or ammunition.”
When you drop a conversion cylinder into an UNMODIFIED cap and ball frame, all you have done is install a "part." There are no FFL requirements. With or without the cylinder, the C&B pistol is NOT considered a firearm.
If you drop a gated conversion cylinder like the Kirst Konverter - Pietta and Uberti "Gated" Converter into the gun AND you cut the loading/unloading channel into the frame it is now considered a firearm by ATF and you have manufactured a firearm without a license. You legally can do this for yourself. Selling or transferring it does create issues.
Back to the OP's situation. Per the ATF the ROA does not require an FFL.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 10-31-2021 at 02:20 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I once had a truck driver come on the plantsite for a load of phosphoric acid and while filling out paperwork I noticed a .36 [i think] c&b revolver next to his seat. He stated it was better than nothing. This was way before ccw.
Another story, in my misspent youth in 1973 my girlfriend and I attempted to drive cross country from NC to commiefornia via Canada. I couldn’t get into Canada at Niagara Falls however with my cb Remington, then when I reentered the US I was threatened with a felony as i was in violation of the Sullivan Act. I mailed the gun to my dad, continued on the trip and parted ways with the gal in Regina Saskatchewan. Stayed in Seattle for the summer and then drove back home, even got my old job back making more than when I left. Glad I never made it to cal.
Last edited by Baltimoreed; 10-31-2021 at 02:33 PM.
I received the gun. It has a few scratches, but cycles well.
However, it has a stripped nipple. What's the best way to get one of those out?
My ROA was very accurate. Built combustible cartridges for it. Cast a conical bullet for it too. Shot it a lot when I was into BP. Eventually sold it when I got into 1911s and ipsc. A reblue would be the only thing I can think of. You might try some brownells oxpho-blue to touch it up.
Start with a good several day soaking with Kroil. Make sure any wrench fits well. You may have to grind the nipple or the wrench or both. You may try to to tighten a little first and then remove it. If none of that works, try to heat it and remove it. If you have to use EZ outs be careful not to break the EZ out like I did! Once you get it out, always use a copper or nickel based never seize on the threads. Track of the Wolf has the correct nipples.
One thing I learned on mine. A RCBS 45-250KT will not fit the chambers unless you resize them to 454 and lube the boolit. Don't use a lubed felt wad under it (the length of the 35 gr FFFg bp, 1/4" felt wad and boolit charge won't fit.
Steve,
Life Member NRA
Colorado Rifle Club member
Rocky Mtn Gun Owners member
NAGR member
We have a special season for Javelina here in Arizona called HAM. It's Handgun, Archery or Muzzleloader only. In my ROA I use a 457 roundball cast from a RCBS mold with 35 grains of Goex 3F, with a 45 Cal Oxyoke lubed felt wad. Over the years I have taken a couple dozen of them with the ROA. Max distance was probably only 40 yards. The roundball really does a number on them, and only one of them wasn't recovered. He ran into a mineshaft and fell down into a pit. I wasn't about going to go in it after him! The roundball also produces the best accuracy over all the other projectiles I have tried. I had the same problem as Minerat did using the LEE 250 grain REAL. It won't fit in the chamber with the 35 grain load and a felt wad.
I don't have any Kroil. I have some PB Blaster. Is that safe on the cylinder?
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