Thought on Why WW's

[lightman]

Still an excellent source of information on casting.

I agree with the idea that we need to make sure folks don't walk past a bonanza of WW or other good lead due to ignorance. While maybe encouraging them to realize the real goal is getting the right hardness in a lead alloy for the use intended.

Hate the thought of someone passing on 100 lbs. of soft sheet lead or cable sheathing because it isn't WW's without realizing that soft lead would allow them to buy a modest amount of premium lead to create a good alloy. Or spending all their money on soft lead and not realizing they need other alloys.

Myself I have been focused on buying premium scrap. I think long term plain lead will be least expensive option to purchase from a foundry. If I have to buy from foundry not having to purchase linotype or tin will save me more than buying plain lead. I'm still buying plain soft lead from a scrap bin when I see it for a good price.

I have found those iso containers a couple of times. Good alloy in all cases. Knew what I was seeing when it showed up in a scrap bin because of what I had read here. Nice part is it was in the "hard" lead bin with WW's which at that yard can be bought for less than the known soft lead. Snatched that up like it was a lost child.

Another thing that older casters need to push is what I call "networking". Thats getting others to look for lead for you. Friends, Family members, co-workers, ect.

Sunday afternoon a buddy dropped off a nearly full 5 gallon bucket of wheelweights. They were stored in a barn for years and were extremely dusty. They were also 100% lead weights. No steal, no Zinc, and only a few valve stems. This was from a contact that I made long ago. He also says there are more and he will bring them to town the next time he is out there. "Networking" may not produce instant results but it works.

[RogerDat]

I guess I'm getting old! I still have a timing light and a dwell meter hanging on the board over my workbench. And a pair of brake spring pliers in my toolbox!

I thought about putting mine in a garage sale then realized almost nobody would know what they were. Those that did would check them out and comment on how they still had those hanging around from "back in the day". In the end I decided those two didn't take up much space.

[LenH]

My youngest son is the manager of a local tire & repair shop. I was there getting my oil changed and was looking in the wheel weight bucket.
I found a pair of nippers and briefly went through the top layer of that bucket. Most were zinc, steel and the plastic weights. There were some
lead ones in there but they were few and far between. I talked with one of the shop guys and he said that most are zinc and steel.

One of these cold wet Saturdays I will take a bucket with me and sort for a bit and see how much lead I can get.

Most of the lead I get is range lead from my brothers club but he is nearly 500 miles away. but it is easy to mine when we are out there .

[bangerjim]

Another thing that older casters need to push is what I call "networking". Thats getting others to look for lead for you. Friends, Family members, co-workers, ect.

Sunday afternoon a buddy dropped off a nearly full 5 gallon bucket of wheelweights. They were stored in a barn for years and were extremely dusty. They were also 100% lead weights. No steal, no Zinc, and only a few valve stems. This was from a contact that I made long ago. He also says there are more and he will bring them to town the next time he is out there. "Networking" may not produce instant results but it works.

"NETWORKING" is the key to most things in this life! The engineering firm I own sees a lot of business just by word of mouth and networking in the industries I serve.

No man is an island! Treat others right and it will come back to you 10 fold. If I remember right, the bible talks about bread, water, "casting", and returns!

[bowfin]

I know that almost nobody collects the lead insulator pins from the electric companies. I don't suppose a person would have much luck with the HUGE companies in some states, but the little co-op electric companies in the South and flyover country are sometimes happy for somebody to haul them off due to the fact that the lead is cast onto the steel pins and junkyards don't like that.

[RogerDat]

"NETWORKING" is the key to most things in this life! The engineering firm I own sees a lot of business just by word of mouth and networking in the industries I serve.

No man is an island! Treat others right and it will come back to you 10 fold. If I remember right, the bible talks about bread, water, "casting", and returns!

Just like your folks probably told you growing up. Saying please and thank you goes a long way. The other truth is you generally find more of what it is you seek out. Letting people know what you want. Especially at the scrap yards, or with construction crews, roofers, friends and neighbors. You need to let them know what it is you are looking for. As well as making it a point to seek on your own regularly.

[Polymath]

I think every caster should have a hardness tester to see what he really is melting. They cost less than a set of premium dies and will let you know what you pour. Last month I fought with a pot of alloy and had to double my normal tin % to get it right. Range scrap can be anything. A few years ago I came into possession of 5 gallons of unknown bars. Tested them and the hardness was off the scale. Pure tin. So hardness testers pay for themselves right away.

[lightman]

I know that almost nobody collects the lead insulator pins from the electric companies. I don't suppose a person would have much luck with the HUGE companies in some states, but the little co-op electric companies in the South and flyover country are sometimes happy for somebody to haul them off due to the fact that the lead is cast onto the steel pins and junkyards don't like that.

Me and another member, Biggin, have saved these and melted them. The most common size pins have about 4 or 5 oz of lead on them. The ones that I had tested were about the same composition as clip on weights. Melting them is a slow go as is building a lead stash from them but free is free! Biggin finally suited up in his knife making leather aporn, face shield and welding gloves and stuck 3 or 4 with each hand into the molten lead. I know, thats a no no! Right now you can sell the bare steel pin for 10cents a pound as scrap.

[RyanJames170]

The problem I’ve found with wheel weights is the fact you have to pay lead prices for them and you get mostly zinc and steel, why I’ve decided to stay away from them.. one good source of lead I’ve found is burms though,

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Living far from places where scrap lead is readily available, I find buying lead from folks on this forum or some commercial sources to be as 'cheap' as spending hours driving 50 to 75 miles looking for 'deals' on scrap, then smelting and all the rest. My postal delivery folk are helpful and kind, come up the drive and let me unload the lead into my shop or storage building. Maybe if you live in a populated area and spend more time chasing garage sales and 'deals' it is worth your time. Good or bad, my network is very small so I spend my time shooting on my range or doing other activities I enjoy. If bargaining and finding deals on lead is your thing, that's fine but that doesn't work for me.

[Mitch]

RogerDat
A great thread.I have posted here a few times about why WW. I was very lucky to find this site several years ago.I was lucky to get into hunting lead then. I went often bought what I could and learned here what i needed to do with what I found here on this site.One of the problems i have seen now is scrap yards closeing out of the 3 here that would sell lead 2 have closed.So now it is down to one place for me and all the other lead hunters.
Now the old school ideas are not bad they work and work well. I agree it is somewhat of a Snipe hunt looking for WW and bars of solder.But it is still a good place to start.Just as you have been talking about in this thread just a little differnt way of going about using the info.This is from alot of lead hunting on my part.After finding mostly sheet,sheathing and sheet lead.After all we want an alloy that works for our application.I do not see WW I see .5% sn 3%sb alloy.From there is is just Math and some good use of the alloy calulator found here.Of course you need some source of SN and SB.So teaching the are of alloying is still about the same just from differnt componets. So to me WW is just another alloy to plug into the alloy calulator.

I totaly agree on the networking being a great way to find lead and alloys.This has been a big key in my hunting.is is surprising how many people will bring you a few sinkers or a few ww maybe an old sheet found in the gramps barn.a bar or 2 of solder or evein pure tin most anything can and will show up.

[TyGuy]

I stumbled across another small source of lead this summer. My wife and I took our kayaks to a local lake to spend a few hours paddling around. I ended up finding lots of lead head jigs, sinkers, and weighted bobbers tangled in places that boats couldn’t go and people on the bank couldn’t reach. I supplemented my range scrap with what I found.

It was certainly more work for less reward than just buying a bucket of wheel weights but we were just out to enjoy a day on the water and it was fun rescuing that poor lead from it’s tangled fate and turning it into what God intended when He said “Let there be galena.”

[fredj338]

WW are scarce because Kalifornia banned them more than 10y ago. More cars in Kalif than maybe 25 states combined. SO the ww guys switched out all their ww. YOu can certainly still find lead based ww but for the most part they will be zinc or steel. I stopped hunting them years ago & now its mostly berm mining. I think you are correct in that a new caster is probably better off buying a known alloy to get going with. It just removes a variable to getting good results. SO 20# of lyman #2 or such is a good start, then start hitting the berms for free alloy. At least there you know its a ll useful alloy.

[oley55]

I'm way new to the casting world, but as has already been presented, so many of our go casting books/manuals/sources are closely connected to wheel weights. Being new to the game, I seem to be more focused on the accumulation of alloys over casting said alloys. To that end I continue to enjoy reasonable success in finding wheel weights. Is it a lot of work and effort, but I usually manage 50% COWW out out whatever wheel weights I buy. After sorting and rendering I am paying about 40 cents a pound for my wheel weight alloy and find myself searching for softer alloys to make 50/50. At my time of life, my labor and time is of little value and is not calculated into my cost per pound.

If/when my kids decide to start casting boolits, I do wonder if it will be cost effective for them. Hell I'm beginning to wonder about myself. All that said, I intend to continue to accumulate as much wheel weight/scrap alloy as I can, while I can and consider my lead stores a shrinking commodity (redneck gold as it were) carrying an ever increasing value. Translation; buy cheap, work hard and build wealth while we still can.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

From experience I would say that new casters tend to go a bit too hard. While I have had excellent results with #2 alloy in 1750 fps rifle loads, I have had very good results with magnum revolver loads up to 1250 with just over 10 bhn. Coww are supposed to be about 15 bhn. Perhaps that is why it's common to cut them with 50% pure. Not sure I ever had a revolver boolit that was too soft.

[RogerDat]

I think Mitch has the same experience I expect going forward. The soft lead sheeting and pipe will be the most common "find". So while I can find anything else I'm focusing my funds on that. I have a metal can where I keep receipts and notes on what I have purchased. If wife ever discovers it... let us say my biggest mistake will probably turn out to be teaching her to shoot and failing to flee soon enough.

The auto makers are building cars to sell all over the world. Many states, and most countries don't allow lead WW's so the car comes off the line with lead free so it can be sold in any market. Then after those tires wear out the replacement tires will get lead WW's (in states that allow lead WW's). Lead WW's are easier and faster for tire balancing so shops prefer them. BUT you won't see those lead WW's in the tire store bucket until this second set of tires is being replaced. That may well be at 70k to 80k miles on the odometer. This is why I tell people to look at shops that sell used tires. They are more likely to deal with older cars and less likely to be a "corporate" store unwilling to sell to you.

Mitch summed it up well. COWW's are simply an alloy with 3 - 3.5 Sb and .5 or less Sn One can make the equivalent alloy. Or mix the specific alloy one would have made from WW's such as a 1.5 Sb and some tin for an alloy equivalent to 50/50 WW/Pb alloy.

I have a lot because once I started searching the "hunt" became part of the fun of casting. I started many years ago when it was a bit easier to find stuff. I hunted regularly. Going to thrift stores on lunch break, or to scrap yards. I set aside money on a regular basis so I had some funds in my shooting cookie jar when I found a larger purchase of desirable lead. Nothing stinks like finding 50# of linotype and only having funds for30# of it. Still 30 is better than none and if you treated scrap yard guys well maybe they will set aside that other 20# in a bucket for you when you can come back with more money.

Tip DO NOT ask wife if she still wears those earrings you bought her. She will want to know why you're asking and that question does not lead anyplace good. I know pawn shop seems like a good idea and it is linotype but.... just don't. Better to just set aside the money you can so you can purchase more lead than you use. Over time that adds up. Starting out plan on filling in with some store bought materials.

[white eagle]

New folks will learn quickly if scrounging is worth the time and expense. Over ten years ago, I realized it was not worth doing...I worked 50+ hour weeks, made a good salary and loved shooting more than saving a few $$$ on alloy.

No one right answer for everyone

Agreed the coveted wheel weight is all but gone
scrounging for them is a often a waste of gas look for substitutes like Isotope cores
or some type of foundry alloy and have it brought to you
but the chase is sometimes worth the time and fuel expended

[RogerDat]

I should add that while casting and reloading in theory is saving money the real value is in making ammo tailored to your barrel and the use you make of it. Along with having a supply of what you need irrespective of the current market for ammo or components.

I get better accuracy and a more pleasant time a the range using a good fitting bore rider bullet with a mild load in old milsurp rifles. The factory ammo is too expensive to shoot much of it and hammers the shoulder with less accuracy. Plinking to hunting to working on your bench rest shooting skills are all casting and reloading gains that go against the cost.

If you develop a mold addiction all bets are off. I did the single mold from Lee for each caliber, now I'm coming back through to find my forever mold for each one. So far I'm accumulating a lot of frogs I kissed looking for a prince among molds in each caliber. At least I'm not a H&G mold addict. I think some of them would trade their wife's car for a nice hard to find H&G mold. Especially if it came with handles.

[gwpercle]

The main reason I bought Elmer Keith's book ," Sixgun Cartridges & Loads " , was to see what he used to cast boolits from in 1936 . Chapter 4 - Bullet Casting revealed exactly what I wanted to know:

1 part Tin with 20 parts Lead (1 / 20 ) : For most revolver cartridges including all light (target) and normal pressure loads up to 1,000 fps.

1 part Tin with 16 parts Lead (1 / 16) : For heavy and magnum loads over 1,000 fps.

1 part Tin with 10 parts Lead ( 1 / 10) : For automatic pistol and small cal. smokeless rifle loads like 30-30 , 32 Special , 30-40 Krag , 30-06 etc.

Evidently Elmer didn't have access to wheel weights and I had an unlimited free wheel weight supply but he retired from the tire business and I have only a couple buckets left . Scrap lead is available as Range Scrap and building materials ... they still build with it . Tin is still available ...but...
I needed to know what the old sixgun shooters used and the ratio to cast boolits.

If anyone wants a copy of Elmer's reprinted reloading book it is available for $9.95 w/ free shipping at Amazon . You can actually read exactly what his loads are ... he reloads one for himself but recommends the reader use a lighter load ... You get to see what a "Real Keith" load is and he explains his bullets designs ... not second hand info ... cool read too !
Gary

[Omega]

Oh, I don't know, I still come across a little mom and pop place now and then that has a bucket or two still in the shop because it would cost them to get rid of it. And junk yards still have many cars that have lead weights on them, harder to harvest, but sometimes worth the trip. While they may no longer be a cheap principle source, they are worth mentioning for those willing to look.