Round Ball Minie Madness........

[dave951]

The project was to design a 50cal minie that wasn't just a scaled down rifle bullet. It had to be usable in the standard "round ball" type of rifle found in most youth camps to allow for faster and safer loading while still maintaining accuracy. From my research, most of the folks who have attempted this are not "minie ball" guys and some weren't really black powder guys either.

So the test protocol. I worked with Steve Brooks at Brooks mold to cut a custom mold with an adjustable base plug so I could vary the weight. Next I got three guns together to do the test. Each gun was shot 15 times straight with no wiping between shots. Then I shot for group. First gun up is my sewerpipe on a stick AKA Schadenfreude Susie, a very battered, nondescript CVA.



Next up is a group from my Investarms flintlock, and yes it went through the same protocol as the percussion gun. The barrel on this gun is new, but the sights are rubbish, but still, the group is quite acceptable.


Overall I think we have a winner. Now to just get it in common use.

[charlie b]

So why not just use a Minie? Lee makes two of them for the .50cal. Once looks like a wadcutter and the other looks more like what I have seen from civil war era stuff.

[Ithaca Gunner]

It looks good to me. Can you post pics of the boolit?

[dave951]

So why not just use a Minie? Lee makes two of them for the .50cal. Once looks like a wadcutter and the other looks more like what I have seen from civil war era stuff.

Several reasons, first off the Lee bullets are just scaled down versions of the 58cal and they have their own problems in geometry, weight distribution etc. Second, the Lee bullets DO NOT cast at .497 nor do they have an adjustable base plug allowing for variable weight to change the physics of the bullet. I have looked at both the molds from Lee and neither is usable for this project. Third, the lube grooves on the Lee bullets are completely inadequate. I fixed that. Finally, when we settle in on a "production" weight, the adjustable plug feature is going to be ended and I'll have a 2 cavity set up for a Magma Caster. And yes, you can cast minies on a Magma.

To the initial reasoning. When working with kids in a youth camp environment, patch round ball is slowwwww. There are kids milling around the loading table. There are kids making powder charges. There is a ton of stuff to watch all before the kid ever gets to the firing line to fire his shot. Couple those items together with the number of kids in a program and it's a miracle any of them get to fire more than 5-6 shots per day. In our instruction method using minies, the instructor is at the firing line with the student. The instructor issues one round of ammunition loaded N-SSA style. The kid loads. The instructor then issues one cap and stays with the kid till the round is fired. Complete control with no mess. The good thing is, in our sessions, kids fire up to 25-30 shots with us shooting minies in Civil War guns. Logistics dictate that can't happen in every case, but the crucial part to keeping up the rate of fire with the same level of Instructor control is the minie and there is NO COMMERCIAL MINIE out there that will fit our needs.

[carbine]

I am impressed with both the results and what you are doing to get the next generation started in muzzleloading.
Lou Lou Lou

[charlie b]

Good explanation. Just curious.

[mooman76]

I have always wondered why Lee doesn't make the Lee 50s smaller. I have tried both in several of my guns. The minies drop at .501/2 with pure lead. I have to ram them down the barrels of my guns. They don't shoot bad to be fare but because of how they load, I figured I might as well use a maxi. The 54 and 58 minies are slightly smaller so they slide down the barrel so why not the 50s?

[bedbugbilly]

Looks good! And the work you are doing for the kids is something to be proud of!

Would love to see some photos of the cast projectiles.

I am in the process of setting up a 50 caliber Lyman Trade Rifle for playing at a variety of distances. It will be a while before I get it done as I want to work on the stock some, pour a pewter nose cap and customize a bit first. I have the Lee Minie, REAL, Maxi and RB to experiment with but what you have come up with sounds interesting and obviously is working well.

Keep us posted once you get the kids shooting them and let us know how it is going!

[dave951]

Here's a pic of the wee beastie in question. It drops at .497 and with the two large grooves, it carries a good amount of lube. I've already proven that this bullet can load and accpetably shoot without wiping for extended shot strings. I'll do a bit more testing but at this point, I'm pretty sure we have a winner for youth camp use.

[indian joe]

Several reasons, first off the Lee bullets are just scaled down versions of the 58cal and they have their own problems in geometry, weight distribution etc. Second, the Lee bullets DO NOT cast at .497 nor do they have an adjustable base plug allowing for variable weight to change the physics of the bullet. I have looked at both the molds from Lee and neither is usable for this project. Third, the lube grooves on the Lee bullets are completely inadequate. I fixed that. Finally, when we settle in on a "production" weight, the adjustable plug feature is going to be ended and I'll have a 2 cavity set up for a Magma Caster. And yes, you can cast minies on a Magma.

To the initial reasoning. When working with kids in a youth camp environment, patch round ball is slowwwww. There are kids milling around the loading table. There are kids making powder charges. There is a ton of stuff to watch all before the kid ever gets to the firing line to fire his shot. Couple those items together with the number of kids in a program and it's a miracle any of them get to fire more than 5-6 shots per day. In our instruction method using minies, the instructor is at the firing line with the student. The instructor issues one round of ammunition loaded N-SSA style. The kid loads. The instructor then issues one cap and stays with the kid till the round is fired. Complete control with no mess. The good thing is, in our sessions, kids fire up to 25-30 shots with us shooting minies in Civil War guns. Logistics dictate that can't happen in every case, but the crucial part to keeping up the rate of fire with the same level of Instructor control is the minie and there is NO COMMERCIAL MINIE out there that will fit our needs.

Dave hows about a pic or two of the boolit you are shooting?

FWIW old CVA's will shoot the LEE minie no sweat so long as you keep a decent solid powder charge under them - proly not the smartest idea for starting kids out tho!

we did it in the early days for skirmish events with 45, 50 and 54 cal CVA percussion guns - they shot that LEE minie plenty good enough to bust a clay off a board at 50 yards - the 45 was nice , 50 cal was ok - and the 54 cal was downright painful (my 54 weighs less than 7 pounds - its a nice thing to carry in the bush all day, but it bites both ends with a strong load in it)

keep up the good work, downunder see very few kids starting fresh ..................