Sizer taking off PC

[Captain Skip]

I just cast a couple hundred 158g SWC. I water quenched them and when finished dried them all. I saw an Elvis Ammo video about using 250 degrees to bake the powder coat instead of 400. It made sense that it wouldn’t temper the lead by heating it too much. The powder coating seemed to fuse at 250 for 13 minutes as 400 at 20 minutes did. When they cooled I ran them through the sizer. I noted it took more effort with this batch than it did with the batch I did yesterday at 400 degrees. The other thing I noticed is that the powder coating on some of the bullets was partially scraped off by the sizing die. Is this something that the lower temperature is doing? I did a pencil test before coating and I’m getting a 15 for hardness. I didn’t check the batch yesterday so I don’t know what they are.

Should I recoat this batch and do them again at 400 for 20 minutes? They’re all going to be used for .38 revolver range use. Or, am I overthinking the whole thing? I’m new to casting and powder coating so I’m looking for a little guidance.

Thanks

[Winger Ed.]

I'd do a batch and see.
While they're cooking, I'd read through some of the sticky threads about PC too.

If there is antimony or arsenic-- I forget which--- in your alloy;
dropping them into the water from the mold is what tempers them.
Also, they will get even harder in a couple of weeks.

If you heat them in the oven, and let them cool slowly, it shouldn't temper them.
It will probably even 'un-temper' them like aneling does.

In the old days- Tempering was THE thing to do.
Everyone would do their casting, put a boolit on a tray in the oven and heat it till it 'slumped'.
Then back off a certain number of degrees.
They'd put all the boolits on a tray, bake 'em a half hour or so, then drop them all into cold water real fast.
That evolved into dropping them straight out of the mold into cold water.
I don't PC, but still do the water drop.

[Captain Skip]

OK, just tried something. The second half of the batch I cast today was in the oven when I wrote the original post. I put them back in at 400 for 20 minutes along with some of the ones that had the powder coating taken off by the sizer - after I recoated them. They all fed through with the same amount of effort as the batch yesterday - much easier than the 250 degree/13 minute batch. So, the 250/13 batch got thrown back in the powder and is back in the oven at 400 for 20. I think I will stick with 400/20 from now on.

[oley55]

I remember watching the Elvis youtube video about cooking at lower temps, but do not recall ever seeing a follow-up detailing the practical real world end results. There have been several posts right here in which the reduced cook temperatures/times have been discussed and/or debunked. The consensus goes along the lines of following the paint manufacture/distributors curing recommendations.

edit a quick scroll found this on page two: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...PC-long-enough which referred me to this "cook time" thread: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...r+Cooking+Time and this: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ed-long-enough, and finally this discussion about elvisammo video: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ight=elvisammo

[charlie b]

That's the reason I stopped watching or recommending Elvis' stuff.

Cook at the paint mfg recommended temp. It is there for a reason.

Yes, if you water quenched out of the mold then cooking the PC will anneal them. If you want them harder then water quench them after PC.

But, there is no reason to make the alloy harder if you are using PC with medium vel pistol loads. Let them air cool out of the mold and oven. They will do fine in your .38.

I've never quenched bullets. If I want them harder I use a different alloy. For my rifles I use Lyman #2 or equivalent. Back when I did a lot of pistol work I used straight COWW with conventional lube. They worked well until I went over 1200fps, then I used gas checks (usually .357mag).

KISS

[Captain Skip]

Thanks all for your input. I still have a lot to learn!

[bangerjim]

You probably do not need water quenching hardness at all with PC! Pretty much a wast of time with PC. I shoot 95% of stuff mixed forat 9-12 hardness, air cooled, and PC'd and never any problems under 2,200 FPS. I use harder +PC for rifles, but never ever the old-school water dropping process any more.

There is a reason to use 400F.............most powders are engineered to work at that temp and not some much lower temp some clown on youtube says. Two things I never use anymore - - - youtube and evilbay.

[Smoke4320]

250 cure works OK for decorating, not for shooting down the barrel of a gun

[charlie b]

Hey Smoke!

Nice way to describe it.

[reedap1]

In a moment of stupidity, I also tried the lower temp PC process using Eastwood Ford Light Blue. They didn't pass the smash test and accuracy was terrible in my 357 Mag. So as the saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Now my process is to water quench from the mold, PC with Smoke's powders, water quench after at least 20 minutes at a confirmed 400 degrees, size within a day or so. In some of my pistols, I am shooting 1" groups at 25 yards off the bench. I'm done experimenting. Stay with the recommendations is the lesson that I learned but only after a short trip off the rails luckily!