Bullets still key holeing

[JoeJames]

So Joe, looks like second target has a group of 3 at .9 inches - correct?
I am fighting similar problems with my big boy - cant get 240/430 keith bullets to perform. Back to my old standby, which is 200 rnfp, .431 diameter, 15 gr AA#7.

TNX Dave

I tried out the Oregon Trail .431" laser cast 240 grain SWC's in part becuase their website indicated they came out with the .431" bullet mostly for Ruger BH's which were bored a bit looser. I figured if it worked for the Rugers in might work for the Henry. And it did. I traded the Henry off even though it was accurate with the .431" because it was too heavy to easily tote around the woods. 8.5 pounds with the Henry vs. 5 pounds with my new Rossi R92 in 44 Magnum. BTW not long after I got the Rossi, I got in a Lee .430" 240 double cavity mold, and the Rossi is quite accurate with them as well as the Oregon Trail .431".

[Dave Pee]

I knurled a handful of the keith bullets that I have had no luck with. Definately increased the diameter. I will try them shorty, if the rains hold off.

[Dusty Bannister]

Dave, that could be interesting. Just filling the hole may not be as effective as actually plugging the hole though. Gas leaking by and gas cutting is going to increase the leading factor.

[Dave Pee]

First test of knurled bullets looks encouraging - they hit the steel target, at least! I will load up a few more ... the sun is out now.

I have been scrubbing the bore today, also. Definate leading... I can also put a gas check on these bullets, which should help sealing the bbl. These are MB 240 grain,fyi.

[Dave Pee]

Well, another frustrating range afternoon, in Beautiful North Florida. The MB keith bullets still go wild: could not hit the target at 50 yards, but I did hit the ram which was 2 ft away! 240 gr, 430 dia, light knurling, 15 gr AA7.

My go-to load at least hit the target at 50, 4" for 3 shots: 200 gr rnfp, .431", 15 gr AA7.

Before i throw this Big Boy in the Suwannee River, anybody want it ???

I am sure I will come up with another recipe tomorrow. Maybe a gas check, maybe faster with W296, maybe a big hammer !!

And BTW, I am a good rifle shooter. Using a front rest, with skinner sights on the carbine.

[Castaway]

Dave, sounds like you also could have one of the Marlin barrels. Look at muzzle and count your grooves and let us know

[Dave Pee]

No microgrooves. Looks like 6 groove.

[Castaway]

Good luck with it. The only thing I throw in the Suwannee is a penny as I cross it when I drive to hunt camp for good luck

[oley55]

Different caliber and rifle but similar keyholing issues. I have a 24" Rossi with that sloooow twist of theirs and had horrible keyholing with with a GC'd 185gr WFN boolits over IMR4227. Tried the same with H110/W296 and I consistently get 2" or smaller groups at 100 yards (Marples tang sight and Globe front sight with Lee Shaver inserts). All things being equal (sizing, brass, primers) the only change was the powder.

My point is perhaps, just maybe you need to try a different powder.

[GBertolet]

I agree on using a slower powder. It is quite possible the pressure is too high for the alloy strength of the bullet. Switching to a slower powder, may be all that is needed. Try it, before taking your rifle for a swim in the river.

[Dave Pee]

OK, slower powders: my reading says AA#9 or W296, or Blue Dot are slower, and in my load books. I will try some #9 first, have not used it yet, in the next couple of days.

Thanks!
Dave

I also want to run these thru quik load, see what it says.

[Baltimoreed]

Pushing a bullet too fast will strip the rifling. Will also cause leading. Undersized bullets will not engrave into the rifling. Clean the bore good. Lower your charge to the starting load listed in your manual. Harder bullets or possibly bigger ones would be next to experiment with. And then you could have a lemon. I bought a Cimarron .45colt 1873 with a 30 inch bbl that wouldn’t group no matter what combination of components that I used. It went back to Cimarron in Fredricksberg, Texas and stayed there a year while a bbl was built in Italy, shipped and finally installed. Now it shoots. Good luck.

[oldcanadice]

Henry is super good at handling problems, very fast at handling things, and they pay the freight both ways. NO CHARGE to you whatever. Less than 2 weeks turnaround here.

One of the return categories they have is for accuracy problems and their newer and replacement barrels have a 20" twist. Definitely worth the effort for a change.

Go to their site online, fill out a service request form, and where they want the ammunition data just put in "Everything I have tried." It's totally worth the effort.

[Dave Pee]

The man at the factory did offer to look at the carbine, if I couldnt get good accuracy. If I am still struggling all weekend, I will ship it back.

But on my To-Do list: use 240 gr Pb bullet, with gas check. Powders to try: 22 gr W296; 15 gr BluDot; 18 gr 2400. These all seemed to start the bullet slower (from QuickLoad), but still get up to 1500fps or so.

Did a unintentional bore plug - with a squib load! Not a great example, but I measured lands at .426, grooves at .430. That implies that all the different bullets should spinning fine ???

[waksupi]

The man at the factory did offer to look at the carbine, if I couldnt get good accuracy. If I am still struggling all weekend, I will ship it back.

But on my To-Do list: use 240 gr Pb bullet, with gas check. Powders to try: 22 gr W296; 15 gr BluDot; 18 gr 2400. These all seemed to start the bullet slower (from QuickLoad), but still get up to 1500fps or so.

Did a unintentional bore plug - with a squib load! Not a great example, but I measured lands at .426, grooves at .430. That implies that all the different bullets should spinning fine ???

Try some .432's.

[Dave Pee]

I just ordered 432 sizer from Lee. And ... found a stash of ranch dog bollits that are about 432 ! Will try those right now!

[Dave Pee]

"But on my To-Do list: use 240 gr Pb bullet, with gas check. Powders to try: 22 gr W296; 15 gr BluDot; 18 gr 2400. "

No go on all 3 loads. One keyholed, all were lucky to hit the black at 50 yards. .432 Ranch Dog bullets.

Back to the factory.

[Old Caster]

You are installing .432 bullets in your cartridges but are they the same after they come out of the cartridge. Inertia pull one and see what it is. I had some 9mm loads swaging from .358 all the way down to .351 and they keyholed out of an accurized Beretta 92FS that had a custom .356 barrel.

[JohnH]

Not sure if the years Henry used microgroove rifling but the rifles pop up occasionally. To determine if you have one of the rifles, look at the muzzle and count the lands and grooves. Not sure of how many, but non microgroove will only have around 6 or less of each. As mentioned by 243winxb and GhostHawk, if that’s the case, a larger bullet is the answer. Microgroove barrels can shoot cast accurately, but bigger bullets are needed. Hard cast bullets are still lead and I’ve yet to see them work unless oversized. Powder coating still is soft and won’t help, although it would be interesting if someone could test two coats and see how that does.

Powder coated and waterdropped is the only way 2 9mm pistols, 1 High Point Carbine and 1 300 Black Out AR I have will shoot cast. The three 9mm's will keyhole every 3rd or fourth boolit. The 300 never keyholes but groups are never under 3" at 50 yards. Powder coating and water dropping from the oven solves all this. I went to copper clads in those because I don't shoot them enough to justify the time and energy to cast and powder coat for them. Tradition lubing is fast enough for my needs.

For OP, boost your boolit diameter, shoot for .431/.432. Edit, Also go to NOE and order a .434 x .430 expander plug, youll have to have a Lee Universal Flaring Die to use this but it makes a solid world of difference and don't use a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

[Dave Pee]

Hey - I finally found this older thread...

Henry put on a new bbl for me, and now the carbine shoots just about anything! Seems to like 21 gr of w296. This works well with 240 gr XTP bullet, or a ranch dog 265 bullet, with gas check.

First accuracy test was 5 rounds at 50 yards; about 1" group!