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Thread: Gas check still needed with powder coat?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Gas check still needed with powder coat?

    I just started my foray into casting and powder coating my bullets. My .38 cal 158g SWC came out really well. I have an Arsenal mold - highly recommend them, very well built. I used Eastwood Ford blue powder coating, shook in a #5 container with plastic beads then 20 minutes at 400 degrees in the toaster oven. Now I want to venture out into the realm of rifle bullets for my Marlin 30-30 model 336. I’m looking at the 170g Ranch Dog clone that Arsenal makes. I have a choice of gas check or no gas check. If I powder coat these bullets do I still need a gas check on them? Marlin people are recommending a .311 diameter bullet for the micro groove rifling which is what the Arsenal mold produces. Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Kraschenbirn's Avatar
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    In my experience that kinda depends upon how fast you want to push your boolit. I shoot PC'd plain-base 162 gr. RNFPs @ a chrono'd 1605 fps from a .357 Rossi 92 without a hint of leading and get retty much the same with my Marlin 1894, shooting 200 gr. RNFPs w/o GC @ around 1350 fps. On the other hand, for some reason I haven't been able to get acceptable accuracy from an NEI clone of the Lyman 311041 w/o GC (pretty much the same as the RD 170 grainer) from my Savage 340 at anything over 1700 fps...even though same boolit @ 1460 fps will print sub-3" groups @ 100 yds from my 10" TC Contender.

    Bill
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    Jimmy Buffett
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I use a gas check on all of my supersonic rifle loads. Plain base bullets I reserve for subsonic loads.

  4. #4
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    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    You will achieve best accuracy with the gas checks applied.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
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    The only cast I applied gas checks to was for 7.62x39mm, the 9mm cast loads I don't over drive, so no problems.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


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    If you get the gas checked version you can try it with and without using a gas check. I shoot a lot of 45/70 GC style boolits PCed with out the GC. They work fine for my needs because I am not going after max velocity. If you later decide you want a real plan base, you can have someone remove the portion of the mold that makes the place for the GC and you will have a plain base, a few grains heavier. Also, today some people are ordering molds with all plain sides, no lube grooves, when PCing boolits. Something to think about.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Dragonheart's Avatar
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    Velocity is not a factor with PC or at least up to 3600 fps or chamber pressures up to 50,000 psi. That is as high as I have tested and a properly coated and cured PC will take that.

    PC will replace the need for a gas check as it seals, lubricates and prevents gas cutting. PC will cover some imperfections in the surface, but what it will not do is correct the non-concentric shape of a cast bullet, remove the imperfections of a spru cut or leave the base of the bullet completely flat and perpendicular.

    A perfectly installed gas check can make the bullet's base flat and perpendicular possibly improving accuracy. However, neither PC or a gas check will make a non-concentric cast bullet concentric and therein lies the inherent problem with full power long range accuracy of cast bullets.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    DHDeal's Avatar
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    I think you're asking should you get a gas check mold or a plain base mold, not whether you should shoot a bullet from the gas check mold without the gas check installed?

    I'm a big fan of gas check bullets and if I had to, that's all I'd shoot. Thank goodness I don't have to make that choice. I'd give the accuracy edge to GC bullets in my guns, but it can be tedious installing a bunch. I cast more than 350 today, PC'd, installed the GC's, then sized/crimped. It took the afternoon...

    I do not see any leading shooting PB bullets from some heavy 327, 357, or 44's shot from FA 83's or a FA 97. I have pushed PB bullets hard too. Everything is powder coated.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I used to avoid gas checks because of the extra step & availability problems.

    Nowadays, because of those nice coated bullets, I find myself enjoying seating gas checks... go figure. No bare lead handling any more. I sort of wish some of my pb molds were GC:s now.

    GC may give better accuracy as mentioned above . But then, I'm personally not after super BR accuracy with cast, I use J:s for that.

    My 45-70 shoots 2-3" / 5 rds / 100 m with a few cast pb bullets. I might get it to 1-2" with gas checked ones, J shoots 1 1/2". But well... I only hunt with J:s

    It depends. Try both and see what you get & prefer?

    EDIT: Some of my latest 470 NE bullets here. Look good,fly good?

    Last edited by Petander; 11-01-2021 at 06:33 AM. Reason: Beauty contest

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I was coming here to ask the same thing! Right now I'm shooting a 130 gr 30 caliber at 2,000 FPS from a 7.5-inch barrel 300 blk. I'm no sniper but I can ring a 2/3 IDPA steel target at 125 yards offhand as long as I do my part.

    Have no leading problems so far yet but only have shot 20 rounds since I just bought to mold.

    Also seems GC is very costly these days! I have been trying to find a tool to make them from common items like cans but have had no luck!

    Like to hear what others have to say about this!

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'll skip the GC if I can. Been shooting PC'd 9mm boolits in my Rossi 357 and doing very well (Lee 124 grain TLTC, sized .358 after coating). I shoot 9mm boolits in order to keep sizing down to a minimum. My next mold purchase will be a 147 grain 9mm for use in the Rossi. Sure wish Lee made one that weight.

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy View Post
    I'll skip the GC if I can. Been shooting PC'd 9mm boolits in my Rossi 357 and doing very well (Lee 124 grain TLTC, sized .358 after coating). I shoot 9mm boolits in order to keep sizing down to a minimum. My next mold purchase will be a 147 grain 9mm for use in the Rossi. Sure wish Lee made one that weight.
    What size are the 124's as they drop from the mold? I've been thinking of trying those in my 357 Rossi also, but i don't powder coat. (yet) TIA

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    I think around .357. They size easily to .358 when PC'd. It is by far the most accurate bullet out of my Rossi. I can't get PC'd bullets meant for the 38/357 to shoot worth a darn out of my gun. They take too much sizing and I believe that is what ruins them.
    My gun shoots 95 grain 380 bullets real good, too. It must have a tight bore.
    I was hoping the Lee 105's or the 170's would shoot but neither of them do for me. The only luck I have is the one on the right, but it can consistently hit the 200 yard gong.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy




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    sknhgy, I have a Rossi 357. I will have to give that boolit a try. Never thought of it. Thanks, Randy.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixgunner452 View Post
    sknhgy, I have a Rossi 357. I will have to give that boolit a try. Never thought of it. Thanks, Randy.
    It feeds good, too! Let me know if you have a chance to try one on a hog.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Gas checks have never been cheap and it adds a lot more time, effort and cost to making a bullet, especially if you install the GC properly. I for don't know of any reasonable way to make GC's yourself since Charlie Darnall stopped making the Freechex gas check tools. Even with the tool you would need to shoot a lot to justify the additional expense. In today's market I think casting and PC gives you a viable jacketed bullet. If you have to add a GC and you depend on the market for supply then it is just one more thing you are depending on others to provide.

    If you PC gas checks are unnecessary on all standard handguns calibers and if you are shooting rifle calibers at 100 yards or less I think a PC plain base does just about as well accuracy wise.

    If I were in the market for a new mold I personally would go for a plain base and if I were looking for a rifle mold I would look for a nose pour. When you consider a bullet is steered from the base I don't understand why a company like NOE doesn't offer an undersized nose pour bore rider just for PC.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    FWIW I meant mostly rifle bullets on my post above.

    I have no GC molds for handguns until 44, there I have one GC mold but I never use it because I have a similar PB mold (MP Larsen). I even have a GC maker for it but PB works just as good for me.

    Also, where I live ,buying sheet copper really kicks the GC price up. I have a 30 cal maker as well but I buy factory checks for half the price of copper sheet. I think my checkmakers are for really tough times...

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub
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    Whether to use gas checks with powder coated bullets ? ... I suppose it can depend on muzzle velocity, or how long the bullets will be in storage. Many gunpowders are not compatible with powder coat. Powder and coating can react making a melted goo and contaminating powder if loads are not shot soon after loading. Basically gunpowders fall into categories of being 1-part or 2-part gunpowders. If I remember correctly 2-part powders containing nitro will react with powder coat causing a melted goo. I experimented a little bit with this. Using separate aluminum containers I put a few powder coated bullets and gunpowder the sealed the lids with tape. After 3 months I opened the containers and found H335, Varget and H4895 did not react with the powder coat. Alliant Bullseye, a very fast burning pistol powder, did react where both the powder coating and the gunpowder was sticky. These were the powders I had in stock at the time and I'm not favoring one brand over another. I'm sure all brands have types of powder that is compatible and all brands have types not compatible. You will find information on the manufactures websites concerning 1-part and 2-part powders and they will identify their powders as 1 or 2 part powders. I use gas checks when using Bullseye to shield the gunpowder from the powder, even with low velocity target loads.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
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    Many gunpowders are not compatible with powder coat.
    First I'd ever heard this, and the OP backs it up with test data.

    Although I knew that some double base powders were more aggressive that others (Lil'Gun began to eat my RCBS Chargemaster after a couple days), I didn't appreciate that some PC materials were also susceptible.

    Anyone got any comparison Powder data for PC brands/types/materials?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stars & Bars View Post
    Whether to use gas checks with powder coated bullets ? ... I suppose it can depend on muzzle velocity, or how long the bullets will be in storage. Many gunpowders are not compatible with powder coat. Powder and coating can react making a melted goo and contaminating powder if loads are not shot soon after loading. Basically gunpowders fall into categories of being 1-part or 2-part gunpowders. If I remember correctly 2-part powders containing nitro will react with powder coat causing a melted goo. I experimented a little bit with this. Using separate aluminum containers I put a few powder coated bullets and gunpowder the sealed the lids with tape. After 3 months I opened the containers and found H335, Varget and H4895 did not react with the powder coat. Alliant Bullseye, a very fast burning pistol powder, did react where both the powder coating and the gunpowder was sticky. These were the powders I had in stock at the time and I'm not favoring one brand over another. I'm sure all brands have types of powder that is compatible and all brands have types not compatible. You will find information on the manufactures websites concerning 1-part and 2-part powders and they will identify their powders as 1 or 2 part powders. I use gas checks when using Bullseye to shield the gunpowder from the powder, even with low velocity target loads.
    I have run long term tests with numerous powders as I started PC in 2012 and I have PC well in excess of 100K bullets. I have not found a powder/PC reaction problem when a quality powder was used and the coating was properly cured.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check