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Thread: About the ammo shortage; Best read yet.

  1. #21
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    While it is a large part of it it doesn't address the shortages and transportation issues with other products. Most of us cast and reload to avoid shortages. I cannot imagine the mindset of any board member that didn't have 10K of primers and adequate powder headed into this situation. I would think it about the same as starting out on a cross country drive with $25, a six pack of soda and a bag of peanuts.
    We are also our own worst enemies. As soon as a product is available someone posts here so that there can be a run on it. In order for prices to return to normal, items must sit on the shelves, not fly off them.
    With the current EPA and business restrictions the start up for a primer and or powder manufacturer would be horrendous. I could see the permitting process taking years. The only exception would be if it were "Woman Owned", the latest branding gizmo. There's my two centavos.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT Gianni View Post
    While it is a large part of it it doesn't address the shortages and transportation issues with other products. Most of us cast and reload to avoid shortages. I cannot imagine the mindset of any board member that didn't have 10K of primers and adequate powder headed into this situation. I would think it about the same as starting out on a cross country drive with $25, a six pack of soda and a bag of peanuts.
    We are also our own worst enemies. As soon as a product is available someone posts here so that there can be a run on it. In order for prices to return to normal, items must sit on the shelves, not fly off them.
    With the current EPA and business restrictions the start up for a primer and or powder manufacturer would be horrendous. I could see the permitting process taking years. The only exception would be if it were "Woman Owned", the latest branding gizmo. There's my two centavos.
    Let me stimulate your imagination and share one “mindset” while I finish my peanuts and last soda to wit: I don’t want 10,000 primers in my home. They are the most volatile and potentially dangerous of the reloading components. I resent having to stockpile them because 1. An illegal combination in restraint of trade has been allowed to develop 2. Millions of my fellow citizens have been compelled to panic buy firearms and ammunition by a corrupt, globalist, elitist, communist administration.

  3. #23
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    MT Gianni said---"The only exception would be if it were "Woman Owned", the latest branding gizmo. There's my two centavos."

    And if she were anything other than white, with one leg and crossed eyes they'd probably almost give her carte-blanche!
    R.D.M.

  4. #24
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    That article is a bunch of bologna by someone who barely comprehends what was written by others. He does not have any first hand knowledge of ammuniton manufacturing, and doesn't even seem to have any working knowledge of manufacturing practices in general. I won't claim to be some ammo guru, but even I can see this.

    Right away he start blabbering about a "monopoly" of two companies being the source of our problems. Ok, shouldn't take a brainiac to see the fault there, moving on. He also seems to knowingly avoid anything Remington related at first, only bringing it up later. As we all know, Remington was producing ammo up to, and during the beginnings of the shortages. They being bought by Vista outdoors did not cause, and is not continuing to cause any shortage beyond the short window the plant was closed. Not at all because of some monopoly.

    He seems completely oblivious to the fact that there are a number of ammunition manufacturers out there. I get that Ohlin and Vista are the two corporations funding the bulk of the factories, but the author also seems to go off on a rant about hurting small businesses and the like. It's hard to find better small businesses than Buffalo Bore, Black hills, Underwood, and plenty more. That's on top of the hundreds of companies that make components for such ammo, Starline, Nosler, Sierra. I do wish more small time primer makers existed.

    And what about Hornady? Are they simply irrelevant now? As far as I know they are not owned by Ohlin or Vista, and they are a huge company when it comes to ammo.

    The last two paragraphs are the real kicker. A conspiracy by big business? We need big government to set in and subsidize ammo for a smoother supply? Give me a break! What a moron! I don't ever want to read anything by Elle Ekman ever again.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    That article is a bunch of bologna by someone who barely comprehends what was written by others. He does not have any first hand knowledge of ammuniton manufacturing, and doesn't even seem to have any working knowledge of manufacturing practices in general. I won't claim to be some ammo guru, but even I can see this.

    Right away he start blabbering about a "monopoly" of two companies being the source of our problems. Ok, shouldn't take a brainiac to see the fault there, moving on. He also seems to knowingly avoid anything Remington related at first, only bringing it up later. As we all know, Remington was producing ammo up to, and during the beginnings of the shortages. They being bought by Vista outdoors did not cause, and is not continuing to cause any shortage beyond the short window the plant was closed. Not at all because of some monopoly.

    He seems completely oblivious to the fact that there are a number of ammunition manufacturers out there. I get that Ohlin and Vista are the two corporations funding the bulk of the factories, but the author also seems to go off on a rant about hurting small businesses and the like. It's hard to find better small businesses than Buffalo Bore, Black hills, Underwood, and plenty more. That's on top of the hundreds of companies that make components for such ammo, Starline, Nosler, Sierra. I do wish more small time primer makers existed.

    And what about Hornady? Are they simply irrelevant now? As far as I know they are not owned by Ohlin or Vista, and they are a huge company when it comes to ammo.

    The last two paragraphs are the real kicker. A conspiracy by big business? We need big government to set in and subsidize ammo for a smoother supply? Give me a break! What a moron! I don't ever want to read anything by Elle Ekman ever again.
    Elle Ekman is a woman.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Elle Ekman is a woman.
    Well good for her. Stupidity knows no gender.

  7. #27
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    No company under today's business climate wants inventory setting on the shelf. Business leaders set up their business so that production rate are nearly constant. They want just enough employees to keep production at a pre-determined rate.
    Constant number of employees, constant quantity of incoming raw materials, no idle equipment, no short term capital investment, that means no ability to meet a surge in business. Business models are "lean and mean". They want production to be sold before it is manufactured. This is the point of maximum profitability. The bottom line means everything to stockholders and corporate leaders for their bonuses.
    So the customer has to wait for their product is no big deal. It is cheaper to remain small that to expand to meet a surge in business.

  8. #28
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    So I did a short bit of research on this Elle Ekman, and found she is some bigshot with the American Economic Liberties Project.

    This article has nothing to do with ammunition. It's just another garbage article from a political hack with a socialist agenda.

    P.S. Is Elle short for something? I assumed it was short for Elliot, but apparently not.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 10-23-2021 at 07:02 AM.

  9. #29
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    She is firing up the ignorant. So many folks "think" they know how a company should be run or how a company is run...but have never had to do it. I was CEO of two manufacturing companies before retiring. No, they had nothing to do with making ammunition and they were small ($20 million), but they were not lemonade stands either. Manufacturing is manufacturing...facilities are facilities, employees and employees, customers are customers, banks are banks....

    Some of the comments are not worth getting banned for. Believe what you want to believe...it does not change reality. Hell, one of my friends still has no regrets about voting for Biden...he is not a bad guy...just doesn't know what he doesn't know.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    She is firing up the ignorant. So many folks "think" they know how a company should be run or how a company is run...but have never had to do it. I was CEO of two manufacturing companies before retiring. No, they had nothing to do with making ammunition and they were small ($20 million), but they were not lemonade stands either. Manufacturing is manufacturing...facilities are facilities, employees and employees, customers are customers, banks are banks....

    Some of the comments are not worth getting banned for. Believe what you want to believe...it does not change reality. Hell, one of my friends still has no regrets about voting for Biden...he is not a bad guy...just doesn't know what he doesn't know.
    Very well put, Don, thanks
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  11. #31
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    The article contradicts itself a number of times. For example, it says that companies cant afford to build and maintain new facilities in a down market then complains companies wont build new ones. It ignores foreign ammunition imports and administration policy like the ban on importing Russian ammunition to fill the current gap.

    It was a long article that didnt say much of anything imho
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

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  12. #32
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    It was an almost identical article I read 2 or three years ago, probably about the time of the Bankruptcy. It laments government not being in the ammo business and two large monopolistic companies. Sounds like google and amazon to me. It isn't cheap to buy land, build a plant to manufacture anything. But the real issue with building and ammo plant to expand production by say 10 million rounds a day is where are the raw materials coming from? Most of these plants would make their own brass, but primers? Powder? even the various bullets? We ALL know right now where the bottleneck is, Primers. and after that powder. You need more than just an ammo plant.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butzbach View Post
    Let me stimulate your imagination and share one “mindset” while I finish my peanuts and last soda to wit: I don’t want 10,000 primers in my home. They are the most volatile and potentially dangerous of the reloading components. I resent having to stockpile them >snip<
    In all my years reloading I have had enough supplies on hand to be fully insulated from panic buying... I continued to shoot when many moaned about price gouging and not being able to shoot.

    Not having supplies is your choice but primer storage is not dangerous unless your house is already in flames. I know this for certain as I rarely have had less than 20k or so available for 30 to 40 years.
    Regards,

    Gary

  14. #34
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    Primers in the original packaging are quite safe.......safer than a lot of the highly flammable,toxic materials used in furnishings,floor coverings,wall panels ...even clothing.........Most dangerous item stored in a home would be the gas bottles often used by plumbers,a/c installers,etc.,next would be gas appliances,next stores of gasoline ,often kept in beverage bottles .

  15. #35
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    when your unduly elected president once quiped that the most enjoyable part of his honey moon, that he spent in communist russia, was watching people waiting in lines that could be 1 mile or longer,,, to simply wait in line in the hope that the bakery might not run out of their 100 loaves of baked bread ...


    what ya freaking expect..

  16. #36
    what do you do when you cannot find what you need such as primers? Powder? Projectiles? first off dont waste as many, learn to make what you can.
    funny situation the other day at the range. man with an AR15 had the 3 way scope and iron sights. he was good to go... he blasted the heck out of his 18 inch target at 30 ft. Dang it looked like swiss cheese. I was impressed. he showed me you turn the thing this way for that type of combat, that way for another WOW he had it going on. I had not even pulled out my rifles as I was waiting for a slot at the range. He moved his target back to 50 yards when the range went cold. I set my 6 inch target at 50 yards. We walked back to the shooting rests, range went hot he shot a couple of clips and only hit his paper 1 time. I hit mine
    1" to the right and 2" down off dead center first shot with a .44 1858 C&B replica using 35grn FFFG and a .44 English Kerr projectile with a #10 Remington cap . the other 5 were just as close
    We live in a disposable society. There is enough ammunition being made to supply everyone IF people did not waste so much and firearms were used as tools and not toys by so many people. Maybe I am old fashioned....

  17. #37
    things appear harder then they actually are. lack of confidence in ones self usually limit what one does. heck, for example if primers are a problem, for example---look at the CVA electra it uses a 9v battery, if needed I can figure out Black Powder whittle out a projectile and dang it if I couldnt get me some food.
    here is a thought..design you own cartridge, figure out how to modify existing firearms to utilize your new cartridge. and start your own business.

  18. #38
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    Vituperative......

  19. #39
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    She hit the nail on the head when she sighted corporate consolidation as a major problem. Look at what it has done to our media. The antitrust protections put in place after the great depression have been whittled away over time and we are really paying the price now.

  20. #40
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    I don't know how to cast boolits...yet!
    Guess I better learn.
    I've been making my own primers for about 6 months with a hit & miss success rate (50%-96%).
    I wonder if any regular Joe Blow has come up with a way to make their own brass and form it into case's?
    Or take used, beat up brass and remake it into "new", useable cases, other than going through the reloading process.
    That process doesn't make mangled brass into new brass, I mean actually melting it down and reforming it into real, new brass.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check