Shot out Mosin Question

[RyanJames170]

I have some more questions about the Mosin from my previous Thread about it..

now my questiona are

1. Would a Gas checked .318 cast bullet work out do in run a high risk of leading?

2. How much Clearance do i need in the neck aria to alow a bullet to properly exit the case, as i am looking at having to neck turn for right now to get the extra clearance.

3. with this bbl being pitted what velocity level should i shoot for with a gas checked bullet? where would you start with powders? ie slower like IMR3031, or fast like red dot ect ect. i have Red Dot, unique, bullseye, 2400, H110, IMR4227, IMR3031, IMR4895 and some others in there,

4. Is there anything i could do to help this work, like lubeing the barrel prior to shooting to help keep leading down.. i do keep this bbl heavly oiled between shooting to keep my mind at ease with the idea of it rusting again..

my goals for this rifle are, 3-5" groups at 100 yards, as it can somehow shoot this good with Tula 7.62x54R.. "i know what it dose this" russians still use skirted bullets in some of there ammo, i suspect for worn out rifles/MG's like mine. and i would like to maybe work out some kinda hunting load if things go well.


what i had posted before in RED

I have a old 1923 mosin that i would like to see shoot cast at some point, currently its being fed a diet of various jacketed bullets.
the bore on it measures .318 in the groves and .305 on the lands, it can shoot .308 diamater bullets with some degree of accuracy approximately 2-4" at 50 yards and with .311 russian bullets it will tighten that up to 2" and 4" at 100 yards,

the barrel was rusted pretty bad when i got it and is pitted pretty bad due to probably corrosive ammo and being in a house fire. the rifle did not get hot at all but did get a little wet and rusted in the fire.

now this rifle can chamber a unisized NOE .316 mold that measures in at .318 unisized. but i can tell the case is touching the throat in the neck aria.

if i wanted to try shooting cast out of this thing how could i go about opening up the neck? and would this bother my accuracy with jacketed bullets?
also what would i wanted to do for a bullet size, lube and preparation to get this thing to shoot cast?

[John Boy]

Sounds like the rifle should become a tomato stake the condition it is in

[Bigslug]

A couple things you might want to try. . .

If you have a set of pin gauges, you might GENTLY see if your .305, .304, .303. . .etc... will travel all the way down the bore. ALTERNATIVELY you could do a pound casting of your chamber, plus start a slug down the first inch or two from the muzzle and then tap it back out with your chamber-casting rod. The goal of this is to find out if your bore might have some decreasing taper from chamber to muzzle, which might allow you to get away with a slightly smaller diameter bullet than you would think by chamber casting alone. That said, bigger is better - at least so long as they chamber.

The NOE 311-, 314-, and 316-299's all have different diameter nose sections as well, so you should factor that into how it will fit your bore diameter

[DonHowe]

I was gifted a Dutch M95 carbine along with the remark, "Maybe you can get it to shoot". While slugging the barrel for groove diameter Ii discovered the bore to be horrible. The thing is so roughly is hard to push thru the bore, it drags so badly. The 6.5mm barrel is eroded to. 270" at both breech and muzzle but has a tight spot about 6" back from the muzzle.
I have read about the polishing effect of paper patched bullet so I made it some PP loads for a try. At 50yds they were all over the place. I abandoned that approach. Next up was the 6.5 Cruise Missile sized .272", lubed with gobs of BAC over 15gr of 2400. They grouped 1 5/8" at 50 yds. A good eye could do better. After having a heavy layer of lube in the sewer pipe barrel the PP266469s were tried again with similar results to the Cruise Missile. Along the way I had to neck turn cases to accommodate the fat bulets.

My point in relating this is, don't give up on the Mosin until you give it a try.

[smithnframe]

Slug the barrel!

[RyanJames170]

Barrel has been slugged, came up with .318 in the groves, and somewhere in the .303 on the lands honestly it’s not far off from a 303 British in barrel dimensions,

[Three44s]

“2. How much Clearance do i need in the neck area to allow a bullet to properly exit the case, as i am looking at having to neck turn for right now to get the extra clearance. “


Safety is number one!

But this easy to discern.

Take some of your fired cases (same headstamp) and without sizing their necks, slip boolits of a known dimension into the mouths of them. They should slide in with a little clearance. It does not take much, a couple or three thousandths.

Now if you are mixing headstamps then the bet is off. If you crimped the previous loading you will likely have to slightly bell the case mouths before doing the slip test.

If you change case brand you need to start over because you can ill-afford to switch to a thicker neck without adjusting boolit size downward.

Hopefully you do not have to neck turn and you have adequate clearance already.

Three44s

[Hanzy4200]

Good luck. I have never considered casting for the Mosin. I have so much cheap surplus ammo that I don't think it will ever be a need for me.

[DonH]

Barrel has been slugged, came up with .318 in the groves, and somewhere in the .303 on the lands honestly it’s not far off from a 303 British in barrel dimensions,

Barrel has been slugged, came up with .318 in the groves, and somewhere in the .303 on the lands honestly it’s not far off from a 303 British in barrel dimensions,

I don't have all the experience I would like in this area but this is what I think.
First off, you need .002" neck clearance minimum. Then work back from there. You have to know chamber neck diameter or you are just guessing. Slug chamber neck with a soft .38/9mm bullet first.
Next, cast bullet diameter is usually .002" over groove diameter so if your groove .s .318" common practice would call for a .320" bullet.
Before going too deep into this project, I would beg, borrow or steal a .321" jacketed bullet and get it seated in one of your cases. Measure outside neck dia minus .001". Compare this dimension with the dia. of your chamber neck slug. This will tell you is a case with a .320" bullet will even chamber. If the assembled round has a neck only a few thou larger than chamber dia. You COULD reduce neck wall thickness by neck turning until an assembled cartridge has a neck dia. that allows that min. .002" neck clearance.
This ia all BEFORE you get to " will the pitted barrel shoot?". If all this is the case, you would have to hone a bullet sizing die to size, get a .321 mold (easy), get neck turning equipment and/or ream the chamber neck to fit. Or you could size .321" jacketed bullets to .318" and shoot it IF they chamber.
Or move on to another rifle.
Or maybe someone else has a better cast bullet solution, then I will learn something too!

[RyanJames170]

I don't have all the experience I would like in this area but this is what I think.
First off, you need .002" neck clearance minimum. Then work back from there. You have to know chamber neck diameter or you are just guessing. Slug chamber neck with a soft .38/9mm bullet first.
Next, cast bullet diameter is usually .002" over groove diameter so if your groove .s .318" common practice would call for a .320" bullet.
Before going too deep into this project, I would beg, borrow or steal a .321" jacketed bullet and get it seated in one of your cases. Measure outside neck dia minus .001". Compare this dimension with the dia. of your chamber neck slug. This will tell you is a case with a .320" bullet will even chamber. If the assembled round has a neck only a few thou larger than chamber dia. You COULD reduce neck wall thickness by neck turning until an assembled cartridge has a neck dia. that allows that min. .002" neck clearance.
This ia all BEFORE you get to " will the pitted barrel shoot?". If all this is the case, you would have to hone a bullet sizing die to size, get a .321 mold (easy), get neck turning equipment and/or ream the chamber neck to fit. Or you could size .321" jacketed bullets to .318" and shoot it IF they chamber.
Or move on to another rifle.
Or maybe someone else has a better cast bullet solution, then I will learn something too!

I will give getting a neck size slug made tonight, and see what I have,

What would be the minimum thickness of neck that I could get away with before I really am pushing the limits? I ask because I have some berdan primed PPU brass that I use to make dummy cartridges that I can turn and make up a dummy with to test fit.

[DonHowe]

I tried to determine minimum neck thickness regarding my Dutch 6.5x53R. Somewhere I read .010" and one gentleman mentioned .008".
Not having much experience in that regard I think I would only go below .010" on cases to be used with low pressure loads. I am open to learning more in that regard. When turning case necks for 6.5x53R I started with a dummy round with the diameter I needed. I then worked back from there, frequently checking wall thickness until I had sufficient neck clearance.
With the Mannlicher I am right on the edge of practicality. The corroded barrel has a groove diameter of, mostly, .270". With a .272" bullet I have to be very careful about bullet seating, bell straightening, etc or have difficulty in chambeting. Easier loading ×old be achieved by sizing .277" jacketed bullets to .269"/.270", with not having to bell cases, etc.

[RyanJames170]

What I came up with on the pounding was .339” in the neck aria, figuring .002” clearance and, a bullet of .319 I get .009” neck thickness

[DonHowe]

I would try it.

[RyanJames170]

I would try it.

I have about 7 loaded up, I can see turning them on my lathe is not the best though so I will be getting a actual neck turning set up to do this.

[nagantguy]

Some good advice listed above, sounds like you’ve been doing the reading and the work- what you have is in worse shape than any I’ve ever rehabilitated or worked only nephew is going down this road with a 1943 in real bad shape as well. Here is my free advice being that it’s free- take it for what it costs.
Clean rifle up and Hang it on wall to display. I’ve spent $$$ and lots of man hours and tons of components that are now impossible to replace to make a 70-80 year old rifle shoot okay with tailored novelty rounds. Learned a lot yes and had some fun sure. Hang it on a wall and spend 300 on a used ruger American or savage rifle that will shoot lights out for a few more life times. After money and dozens of hours- my hours are worth money- you’ll still have an 80 year old burned out shot out old war horse. And it seems to become an addiction and with Nagant rifles now selling for $3-500 there is much better use of time money and resources- an afternoon of hand loading for almost ANY other rifle will net much greater results

[RyanJames170]

I would of gotten ride of this rifle a good long time ago but this thing dose shoot pretty well with Russian Ammo, I am able hit a reduced sized shiloette target at 300 yards pretty much every time with light ball made by Tula, the target in question is little bit narrower then the front sight appears as your looking down the sights..

Heck it shoots .308 bullets accurate enough to smack a 6” plate at 100 yards.. why I have no idea.. but I figured I would give cast a try in it as a cheaper alternative to buying bullets, abs so I could save my light ball for other guns. And because I have a finish capture M91/30 that has a better but pitted bore I’d like to dive into making cast shoot good out of as well.

[390ish]

Bore and re-chamber to 9.3x54r.


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