Inline FabricationLee PrecisionRotoMetals2Repackbox
Titan ReloadingWidenersReloading EverythingMidSouth Shooters Supply
Load Data
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 134

Thread: I found a better cleaning fluid for my 22LR

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    In the Gopher State of Minnesota
    Posts
    6,711
    The main issue is availability. 3 gun shops within 25 miles and none carry anything except bore cleaners.
    If I want the good stuff it's going to be mail order and extra costs.

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,901
    Quote Originally Posted by Pressman View Post
    The main issue is availability. 3 gun shops within 25 miles and none carry anything except bore cleaners.
    If I want the good stuff it's going to be mail order and extra costs.
    If you have a friend or relative with Amazon Prime shipping is free if they have what you want.
    Don Verna


  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Pressman View Post
    The main issue is availability. 3 gun shops within 25 miles and none carry anything except bore cleaners.
    If I want the good stuff it's going to be mail order and extra costs.
    Graf & Sons has the products in stock. They charge a single $9.95 shipping fee for non hazardous contents. Since these are not aerosol, they are non hazardous.
    How much does it cost you in gas to drive 50 miles round trip?
    For me, that is at least three gallons of gas(my pickup truck is the only vehicle I have) at $3.50 per gallon. Cheaper to buy online and have it delivered rather than searching all over for it.

  4. #64
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    tazman...

    I have a 16 oz. bottle of the C4 stuff in the cart @ Brownells and am hesitant to add the Rimfire Blend.
    Just how much difference in chemicals can all these cleaners be? Is the C4 the champion of their line of cleaners? If it is a surfacant (?sp.) something that penetrates deep and gets between the barrel metal and everything else layered & burned onto it...then... why buy chemicals that are basically the same stuff, like their 'Rimfire Blend'?
    I didn't do well in chemistry in HS so I can't look at a MSDS and have it reveal meaningful information...I'm thinking that all the bore cleaners are like 'fishing lures'...some of them are the real deal and get the job done but the majority of them 'catch the fisherman' because they appeal to him?

    Over the years I have bought Sweets & Butches & Hoppes and they pretty much do the job...that is---before we started seeing what is really in that shiny clean bore with a borescope, up close and personal!
    I think I want to try plugging the muzzle with some tape and filling the bore with one of my cleaners and allowing it to sit for 24 hours before I go scrubbing at it.
    Perhaps all the cleaners will do the job if they are allowed to make wet contact for a long enough soak period?

    Another thing...we have to come up with a way of getting the same photo of the same place in the barrel, time after time, for comparing these cleaners efficiency.

    Yesterday I went after the carbon ring in the 'darkbore MKII' (makes me shutter) with the JB Bore cleaning paste (grey stuff)...I took a series of boreshots so I could share here in your thread. There is a problem...we need to devise a foolproof way of getting the same shot in the bore after pulling the scope and cleaning and going back in to record the difference.
    For example... "Dirty Bore"



    A little cleaning...revealing some lead under all that blackness...



    A little more cleaning...the ugly black carbon still hanging in the imperfections of the metals surface...



    I wanted to compare other areas of that 'sewer pipe' to see what the JB Bore Paste will really do.
    I took all these photos like the 3 above trying to see a 'progression in cleaning'...the problem is, that this morning going back to my photos I am lost trying to get those comparison shots..I can't really say that several photos are in the same place after pulling the scope.



    See what I mean?
    Got any ideas taz?
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    After using both of the chemicals, I doubt I will be using the rimfire blend unless the rifle has only a few rounds through it.
    I believe(can't prove) that the C4 carbon remover is more powerful that the rimfire blend as far as removing the carbon goes.
    If all you want to do is a quick cleanup of the bore and chamber after light use, the rimfire blend should be fine. For heavy carbon fouling such as I was running into, particularly with my older rifles, the C4 carbon remover is the way to go.
    I believe you can do quite well with only the C4 carbon remover. Since I have both on hand, I will use the Rimfire blend for light duty cleaning on a more regular basis till I get it used up. Those big bottles will take a while to empty.
    The instructions for both indicate that they will not hurt the steel in the barrel and can be left in there for long periods.
    Bore Tech even recommends that, for long term storage, to leave a coating of either in the barrel during storage and run a dry patch down the barrel before shooting.
    I seriously doubt I will purchase the rimfire blend again due to what I saw take place while observing the cleaning process with the borescope.

    As to your pictures. I found that during the insertion and down the barrel, I was doing fine getting consistent positioning in the chamber but not the bore.
    The mirror on my borescope fits rather loosely and is easy to turn. When it gets into the rifling, the rifling will turn the scope so I no longer know which side of the bore I am looking at.
    There are no grooves in the chamber so there was no issue with positioning there.
    I suppose I could tape, or otherwise fasten the mirror in place so it didn't turn during it's trip down the barrel but I hesitate to do that.

    I am much more concerned with the chamber area at this point so I need to be able to turn the mirror and select the portion of the chamber I want to look at.
    The bore is always clean within a couple or three wet patches anyway and doesn't require the heavier cleaning the chamber does.

    Without being there and adding data to each picture you took, I have no idea what the sequence was or which portion of the barrel you were looking at during the photos.
    If the mirror is fastened in position, We could make alignment marks down the side of the tube of the borescope along with depth marks so we would know within a small area where we were looking. This might be very useful in a pitted barrel when trying to get it cleaned out.

  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post

    There are no grooves in the chamber so there was no issue with positioning there.
    I suppose I could tape, or otherwise fasten the mirror in place so it didn't turn during it's trip down the barrel but I hesitate to do that.

    I am much more concerned with the chamber area at this point so I need to be able to turn the mirror and select the portion of the chamber I want to look at.
    The bore is always clean within a couple or three wet patches anyway and doesn't require the heavier cleaning the chamber does.

    Without being there and adding data to each picture you took, I have no idea what the sequence was or which portion of the barrel you were looking at during the photos.
    If the mirror is fastened in position, We could make alignment marks down the side of the tube of the borescope along with depth marks so we would know within a small area where we were looking. This might be very useful in a pitted barrel when trying to get it cleaned out.
    My mirror screws against a small little lock ring that stays on the camera's cable where the mirror screws on, should you replace the mirror with a larger one for bigger bores you can snug lock them also.



    I've noticed that the lands don't turn the mirror or the entire cable as I push deeper into the bore. If the lock ring is snug I can twist the cable with my fingers to observe a full 360º so long as the cable is not twisted in a loop outside the bore.
    Last edited by OS OK; 11-01-2021 at 04:15 PM.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master

    jonp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    8,281
    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    Interestingly, I have two CZ 452 Varmint .22 rifles (s/n A770xxx and A557xxx), both adorned with Weaver Classic 3-9x32 scopes and Harris bipods. I had a similar group opening (HUH??? OMG!!!) with one of the two, and used my regular (til then) Shooter's Choice. Not seeing any great improvement, range-buddies suggested it may be my choice of .22, suggesting copper clad. From "the old school" where we were "taught" the copper-clad for semi-autos and wax/lub .22s for all other actions -- I instead sought a different cleaner.
    The one I found and used is Montana X-treme Rimfire Blend. Midway USA purveys it (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014780889). However, I did NOT see a marked improvement, albeit -- like your experience -- patches did come out quite soiled.
    Doing "test-shooting" with a rest at range, a friend suggested I try Butch's Bore Shine -- another then new to me product. The Butch's seemed to do the trick -- and frankly, this is ALL I use in every firearm I own ('cept, of course, the air rifles -- Ballistol only for them).
    I even complement the Bore Shine with Butch's Gun Oil -- applying a thin coat after each cleaning -- to be removed with a Zippo-lighter-fluid moist patch immediately before next shoot...
    geo
    I've tried both and on a surplus Mosin XTreme and JB Borepaste cleaned out years of grunge. Never got MOA from it but 3 MOA using Yugo spamcan was plenty good
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

    Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum

  8. #68
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    OS OK---Would you please post a picture of the working end of your borescope from the side? I want to get an idea about whare to set the mirror for best focus.

    I wasn't aware there was a lock ring until this last post of yours. Mine didn't turn easily. I had to put some effort into getting that lock ring to move. Now, I expect I will be able to lock the mirror into position but I would like to have something to compare it to.
    Thanks.

  9. #69
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    OS OK---Would you please post a picture of the working end of your borescope from the side? I want to get an idea about whare to set the mirror for best focus.

    I wasn't aware there was a lock ring until this last post of yours. Mine didn't turn easily. I had to put some effort into getting that lock ring to move. Now, I expect I will be able to lock the mirror into position but I would like to have something to compare it to.
    Thanks.
    Did you hang onto your directions? I took pictures of that too if you need the dimensions they suggest?





    Of course they show the scope centered in the bore and we all know it settles to one side most of the time.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    Thanks for posting. The picture helps.
    I still have my directions, but the package and the directions don't look like yours. Your directions are much larger and easier to read. Also, there is no mention of a locking ring in my directions anywhere.
    The printing is so small, I needed a magnifying glass to read them.
    There is a mention of a wiping cloth but my set didn't include one.
    I also do not have that many mirror attachments.
    Other than those things, it seems to work just like yours.

  11. #71
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Those extra mirrors were all extras I had to purchase, I figured I better get them now or the model will change and I'll be out of luck.

    Here's the other pages in the little pamphlet.









    Sorry about the condition of the pamphlet...the dang delivery driver throws the packages from Amazon over the front gate and then Sassy & Max think they have a new toy. If I don't catch it right away they'll open everything and spread it all over 8 acres!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  12. #72
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    I can see now that your unit, while the same basic brand, is a different model with more accessories than mine. I didn't get the WIFI setup. Mine only has a USB plug in and must have a computer to work.
    It might have been nice to be able to use it with my phone at the range or wherever, but I can use it with my laptop so I guess it accomplishes the same thing. I never saw an option for other sized mirrors, but then, I don't need them for what I do.

  13. #73
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    In the Gopher State of Minnesota
    Posts
    6,711
    Tazman, I have the computer model and it works great with my Samsung phone.

    Choosing software is a free choice. There is one program mentioned in the instructions and that is what I chose. Opening the link to play store provides a couple of dozen software choices.
    The one mentioned has in app advertising. Not to annoying once I understood how it worked.

    A big issue for many people as I have read on other forums is forgetting to correctly focus the mirror.

    A bore scope can find a lot of problems that cannot be seen with the old eyeball look down the bore.

    I would recommend having it with you when out gun shopping at the fun store or gunshow.

  14. #74
    Moderator Emeritus


    georgerkahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    South of the (Canada) border
    Posts
    3,051
    OS OK -- once again I am ever so happy being "here" on this forum! From this thread, I have been "motivated"(?) to purchase one of these bore-scopes (from Amazon) which is due to be delivered day after tomorrow ! In addition to all your wonderful explanatory comments, I 'specially appreciate your posting the instructions which came with yours. I will surely copy/paste/print them (beats using the magnifier glass assuming the directions with unit are in tiny fonts!) and they will, without a doubt, enable my first use upon the unit's arrival so much easier.
    Thank you again!
    geo

  15. #75
    Boolit Master Ole Joe Clarke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    808
    Question concerning the bore cleaner. One of the containers holds .25 oz, and it doesn't seem practical to just purchase that small of a amount. Do you guys that have used this stuff agree/disagree? Comments please.

    Have a blessed day,

    Leon

  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    OS OK -- once again I am ever so happy being "here" on this forum! From this thread, I have been "motivated"(?) to purchase one of these bore-scopes (from Amazon) which is due to be delivered day after tomorrow ! In addition to all your wonderful explanatory comments, I 'specially appreciate your posting the instructions which came with yours. I will surely copy/paste/print them (beats using the magnifier glass assuming the directions with unit are in tiny fonts!) and they will, without a doubt, enable my first use upon the unit's arrival so much easier.
    Thank you again!
    geo
    Your welcome Pard.
    One thing to remember BEFORE you go poking around in all your bores.
    Remember how well each platform has shot for you, how well it groups, how reliable...uhhh...remember all the times you have cleaned it & looked down the barrel only to see a bright shiny bore...
    When you see what is really going on up close and personal, in many cases you will be shocked!
    Don't let that shocked impression get you into a tailspin about what to do now...what to do to fix it or think "OMG, I need a new barrel!"



    I read...(been reading for 15 years ?) a book about Benchrest Shooting, a composition of letters to professionals...shooters, gunsmiths etc. asking them questions & their personal advice. Say...the author would ask specifically about something like neck tension or sizing & there's about 4 to 6 different answers.
    Not being a gunsmith, I've relied on their opinions about most things, the barrel for instance. That Benchrest world looks at things very critically, they like pristine things well engineered & maintained...so, that's all I had to go on when I first entered into 'barrel proctology'.

    What I think I know now is that there's a couple factors that really matter...the chamber & the crown. These things we can do something about at home in the shop. The acceleration area in between those two areas can look pretty bad (in .22lr) and still the rifle shoots pretty well. Don't get wound around the axle when you see the chatter & tool drag marks...somehow, they keep shooting.

    After peering into the 'sewer pipe' in that MKII...I got spun!
    I was convinced that this was the reason I can't shoot like the CZ or Anshultzs (?) Brnos (?) all these other high end platforms..."It's definitely that dang barrel!
    In reality...for us non-professionals...the reasons are many & most of it lays on our shoulders as shooters...we are the weak link in the system.

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  17. #77
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Joe Clarke View Post
    Question concerning the bore cleaner. One of the containers holds .25 oz, and it doesn't seem practical to just purchase that small of a amount. Do you guys that have used this stuff agree/disagree? Comments please.

    Have a blessed day,

    Leon
    I agree with you. It isn't practical or cost effective to purchase that tiny bottle.
    I purchased the 16 oz bottle as I intend to do quite a bit of shooting in the future with my 22lr rifles. I will also use it for my 22lr pistols.

    That was one of the things I also checked into. I have a couple of S&W 22lr semi auto pistols that I shoot quite a bit, particularly in the winter.
    I checked the chambers on them with the borescope and found the same carbon ring buildup that was occurring in my rifles. The C4 carbon remover took quick care of that problem also. I haven't tested for any improvement in accuracy with them yet but, since I am a much better rifle shot than I am a pistol shot, I am not certain how much I will notice.
    At least the chambers are clean now. It will certainly help with feeding if nothing else.

    I need to take a look at my revolver cylinders, both 22lr and 38/357, and see what is going on there. It may be a similar issue. I may be leaving some accuracy on the table due to something I didn't know was happening and couldn't clearly see.

    The C4 Carbon remover will also work for removing the carbon ring buildup in revolver cylinders that comes when you shoot special in a magnum chamber. I get that with my 357 revolvers as I shoot a lot of 38 special cartridges.
    Last edited by tazman; 11-01-2021 at 11:15 AM.

  18. #78
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    tazman...A couple of updates to things I've posted here:

    1> In post 66, I said that I could tell the orientation of which part of the barrel (referring to clock numbers) I am looking at by seeing how the silver part of the mirror is pointing & that the bottom of the photo is always at 6:00.
    ...Here's the update to that..."I am full of crap! I was dead wrong in that assumption!" Today I tried to go farther in that assumption and figure a way to get to the same spot in the barrel every time...as in comparing the same spot after successive cleanings. Finally...it dawned on me that this is definitely not true.
    Sorry to anyone who may have believed that.

    2> In post 64 I said I wanted to plug the barrel and soak it for 24 hours with something I had on hand to see if what I have would do the trick if given long enough to penetrate?
    It was a good idea but a fail...

    I plugged the barrel with a wax coated Tipton Pellet...and inserted it just past the area where the lands & grooves start.



    Of the three cleaners I had, I chose the Butches because it had the most convincing 'Bla-Bla-Hype' on the back of the bottle...



    Next I pulled the bolt on the MKII and clamped it muzzle down next to the table...



    Then I filled the chamber with a syrenge with the Butches Bore Cleaner...



    I figured I'd sit there for a while and make sure the plug held.
    It did not & I had to keep adding more Butches to top it off. After 20 minutes I decided I had hit another fail. So I proceeded to work the chamber like I intended to do tomorrow.

    First...I pushed the plug out with a fresh .22 cal. mop and worked the mop in the entire barrel about 10 strokes.
    Then I took the pictures. Those are between lines 'A & B', the carbon ring area. labelled with a green #1.
    From what I saw the day before I don't think I see any difference.



    Second...I wet the bore again with Butches and worked it 20 strokes with a new bronze brush, those pictures of the chamber are labeled with a green #1 between lines 'B &C'. I ran a few dry patches too.

    The big Red 'X's' are just place markers, pictures I took so I could tell which series of pictures was what.
    All the rest of the pictures are just circular views of a random place in the barrel. They don't mean a thing at this point.

    It was almost a wasted morning, I think I will order the 'C4' stuff and start all over again when that arrives.

    Sorry for all the confusion in your thread, if you want I'll delete my posts so you can keep it clean and have just the facts about the C4 discussion only.

    charlie
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  19. #79
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    As you have said yourself in other threads, This is all good information. I am not deleting any of it.
    people are mature enough, they can read through and see the results you posted about issues so I see no problem with it.
    Please continue to post whatever you find relevant.

    Question---Did you end up with a puddle on the floor or did the plug soak it up?

  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    As you have said yourself in other threads, This is all good information. I am not deleting any of it.
    people are mature enough, they can read through and see the results you posted about issues so I see no problem with it.
    Please continue to post whatever you find relevant.

    Question---Did you end up with a puddle on the floor or did the plug soak it up?
    The plug didn't hold, I think the solution may have compromised the sizing wax I coated the pellet with. I had to keep adding to the bore for the 20 minutes I waited. There was a wet spot on the carpet.

    Did they give you mirrors with different angles on them?



    This one is the 45º mirror with a backlight behind it from a LED penlight. You can see other details about the lands in the green lighted area.



    This is the 60º mirror...



    I'm not sure the differences they show us? Nothing in the instructions about them either.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check