Big Problem ! What Brass for .32 Rimfire Rolling Block - Conversion to CF ?

[Quinnbrian]

32 rimfire, and 32 colt long or short are the same size, around. Just have to move the firing pin to chamber and shoot. I have one in 32 colt, factory barrel...relocated firing pin.
Cheers
Brian

[DoctorBill]

It has been a while since I last posted here.

I have MADE several "Dies" with 7/8" x 14 Threaded Rod and a size "O" drill.


Took .32 S&W Long Brass, annealed the whole case, and reduced the diameter
to .32 Colt Long.

This required me to make a Steel Rod to fit the reformed Brass (inserted into the
reduced case) and TURN the "ring bulge" off of the reformed Brass - ON MY LATHE.

Worked out Fine ! Annealing was required ! Each case was tested in the oy's
Rifle for fit. Took Vast Patience...but I am retired, it was Winter outside, so I just
DID IT - took a month of 3 - 4 case per day.
THEN - after I did 150 cases, the Buffalo Arms Backorder for the ordered cases arrived !
HA !

So - Bullets - I purchased an EM-32 Mandrel and Collet set for my LATHE.

Molded LEE .32 cal bullets of WW metal, mounted the Cast bullets in the 8mm Collet
Chuck and trimmed off the last ring at the end of each bullet. Again - took patience.
i.e. made "Heeled" .32 Cal Cast Bullets.

More pictures in the next post.

[DoctorBill]

Here goes...I made a four part Picture Instruction of what I did.
Please excuse - I believe in teaching what you know.....if you learn it
and then teach it to someone else, it isn't lost when you die !
That would be an unforgivable WASTE !

Click on each picture to enlarge it.

Part 1 of 4


Part 2 of 4


Part 3 of 4


Part 4 of 4


I hope this is viewable ! More on Heeling the Bullets in next post.

[DoctorBill]

I made some and bought some. Was FUN !

Bought a Morse Taper Collet Chuck on e-bay and a bunch of the Collets
for under $100. Most useful ! Pictures below.

This is the LEE Cast Bullet Molded bullet I used.

After turning down the bottom ring - this is what I used.


Here is how I did it. Looks complex - it isn't. After a few, you can go
fairly fast. Patience required...








I purchased some used .32 S&W Long Brass from a fellow in
Idaho. He included some OLD OLD .32 Colt New police and .32
Colt Long Cartridges that he had ! Relics ! I have about 20 of them now !


These bullets WERE sold by some fellow on Gunbroker, but he is
no longer there....sad. Had health problems when last I ordered.

I do hope this helps SOMEONE ! If you don't have the tools....sorry.

DoctorBill

[ndnchf]

I have two youtube videos that you guys may be interested in.

The first is about turning a heel on a bullet in the lathe:

https://youtu.be/e76FJEfzW_k

The second is about modifying a case in the lathe to make .44S&W American. It is essentially the same process to make .32 Colt or .32 Ballard Extra Long:

https://youtu.be/iVzb4WopeAM

[uscra112]

Jack Harrison is the guy on Gunbroker. He is still there.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/932846050

[DoctorBill]

OH Good !
I couldn't find him there....
he was having health problems - I am glad he is better now !

Read his comments below his ad. That is how I got started reforming .32 S&W to .32 Colt.

Thanks for the Link uscra112 !

[uscra112]

I communicate with him every few months over one thing or another to do with single shot rifles in obsolete calibers. At one point we were discussing how to do the machining on the rimfire adaptors. I eventually bought a custom reamer to do the final sizing of the hole and finish the rim recess in one operation. He was headed in another direction, and I've never followed up with him about that.

Last was just the beginning of April, when I discovered to my chagrin that if you make .32 Colt from Starline brass, you have to thin the neck walls or the bullets won't fit. (He of course already knew that. He likes PPU when he can get it.)

He's never mentioned health problems, but ~3-4 years ago he was not doing business while he moved.

Phil

[Scrounge]

.
.
I just acquired an old Remington .32 Rimfire Rolling Block No. 4 Rifle for $250.

Attachment 290513

It is in great shape and I have converted it to Center Fire.

I 'thought' that .32 S&W Long Brass was what it would take. NOT !

I am not an aficionado of .32 Caliber firearms, but have been looking around
the Internet to get dimensions of .32 Caliber Pistol Brass.....

OMG ! Looks like .32 Caliber Pistol and Rifle ammo comes in MANY different
lengths and Diameters !

SO - I am here to ASK for help in this regard.

I purchased 100 .32 S&W Long Brass and - it is too large in diameter.

Then there is .32 Colt Long Brass.

Buffalo Arms sells .32 Colt Long Brass which looks to be .32 S&W Long (from the
out of focus pic of the rim) reformed - they claim that it IS reformed.....
https://www.buffaloarms.com/32-long-...2longcolt.html

The .32 S&W I purchased is 0.333" diameter and my rifle's chamber is .319" diameter
which is essentially 8mm !

If you look up the .32 Rimfire on Wikipedia, it says - "The .32 Short and Long Rimfire
cartridges matched the external dimensions of the .32 Colt Short and Long centerfire cartridges"

I've been looking at these various dimensions long enough that my head is spinning !

Long Story Short - what center fire Brass should I buy (or reform from something else)
to use in my Remington .32 RF Rolling Block converted to Center Fire ?
Has anyone been there/done that ?

ALSO - What Dies do I need to use with that Brass ?

Might I use an 8mm die to reform 32 S&W down to .319" diameter ?
32 Colt Long dies are around $140 - if you can find them !

DoctorBill (frustrated old dude)

I've bought some .32 long colt brass from Starline, and once the shop is set up, will be converting some 32 Long S&W brass, and 32 Short S&W brass. I have Stevens boys rifles in both .32RF long and short. Favorite and Crackshot. I'll be making centerfire breach blocks for both of them. Also swaging dies, etc.

How old is old, DoctorBill? I'm 67, and it's taking forever to get the shop set up. Back is messed up, but I work at it a bit each day. Just got the certificate of completion for the (normally 8 month) "Advanced Manual Machinist" course it's taken me 7 years and three months to finish, part time. Have an Atlas TH42 10" lathe in operational condition, a couple of drill presses likewise, and several other machines, mostly desktop, in need of refurbishment. Horizontal and vertical mills, shaper, and a Smithy 3-in-1 machine, a couple of bandsaws and another drill press, might be other stuff out there, too.

Bill (sign as Bill in OKC on the metalworking boards that moved from Yahoo to Groups.io)

[Mk42gunner]

.32 New Police was the same thing as the .32 S&W Long, with a factory loaded flat point. It was not the same as .32 Long Colt.

It was Colt's way of chambering their guns for the S&W cartridge, but not marking them with their competitor's name. Kind of like how Marlin (IIRC) marked their rifles .44-40 instead of .44 WCF. I guess it made sense a hundred years ago, but causes confusion now.

Robert

[uscra112]

To keep y'all busy, here's a CAD sketch of a tool I made for reloading the .32 Long Colt. Mine was designed for an Ideal #3 Tong Tool. but since those are few and far between I altered the design to fit into the body of the misnamed Lee "Universal Expander".

The idea is to have the bullet held against the mouth of the case by the spring plunger, while the whole assembly is pressed into a Letter O drill bushing to shrink the case mouth onto the bullet's heel. This eliminates any preparatory sizing of the cases. Just clean, recap, drop the powder charge in, place the bullet on the case, and run the assembly into the tool.

(The otherwise inexplicable numbers next to the part descriptions are the CAD overlay levels.)


The resolution here isn't too good. p/m me for the original file.

[uscra112]

.32 New Police was the same thing as the .32 S&W Long, with a factory loaded flat point. It was not the same as .32 Long Colt.

It was Colt's way of chambering their guns for the S&W cartridge, but not marking them with their competitor's name. Kind of like how Marlin (IIRC) marked their rifles .44-40 instead of .44 WCF. I guess it made sense a hundred years ago, but causes confusion now.

Robert

It caused confusion 125 years ago, too. The 1895 Ideal Handbook devotes a whole paragraph to the variations of .32 Colt/S&W cartridges, stating which ones they would and would not make tools for.

Everybody did it. Remington called the .25 Stevens rimfire .25-10, and Winchester had to rename the .25-20 Stevens cartridge to .25-20 Single Shot once they'd introduced the short version for their lever action.

[DoctorBill]

Hey 'scrounge' - I'm 79+ years old. Getting difficult to get around. Didn't know
that old folk usually hurt somewhere all the time. Forget stuff so bad I scare myself.
Changed my Avatar to meself....
Some days I become 'down' - but that's usually when I sit around and eat and watch
the Boob Tube too much. I remember watching the so called "News" once where they
asked an old 103 year old woman how she lived so long ? She said, "I never stop movin' !"
I say retirement is a slow death sentence. For some - not so slow. Keep on movin' and doin' !
Find SOMETHING(s) that interests you and GO FOR IT - with vigor ! Learn something NEW
to keep making new brain cells. Take Zinc & Vit C every day. Don't run with scissors !

I hate the cold, rainy, gloomy weather here (Spokane, WA) that we're getting now.
Wish I understood HOW rain makes the bones ache ! THEN I bitch when it get too hot.
I must confuse the Lord.....

Back to Bullets.

I acquired that .32 RF Boy's Rolling Block Rifle and converted it to Center Fire.
Then Reformed .32 S&W's into .32 Colt (new police) cases. Got maybe 230 of them now.
Bought some .32 cal heeled bullets from Harrison then - made me own with the 8mm
Collets on my Lathe. Haven't shot the Rifle yet. Supposed to clear up soon. Right !

Then, just last month I acquired this ! $205 on Gunbroker. .32 S&W Long - (German) 1957.


Shot it several days ago in the rain - couldn't wait !
No front sight and missing the Arminius Medallion on the left side. Ordered a Ruger sight
(22 caliber ) on e-bay to replace the missing sight. Arrives in three days via USPS.
I'll have to modify the sight....not the pistol.



Maybe some foreign Coin will fit in there...(?)

Using a Grass Stem jammed in the old sight hole in the front of the pistol at the range, I got
a 10" pattern at 30 feet with it ! Seven round cylinder. The cylinder is tight when cocked.
Damned good shape for a 55 year old so called "Saturday Night Special" - by the ATF !
Stupid reputation - a well made German pistol !

That's all folks !

DoctorBill

PS - Can anyone suggest how I match the Ruger Front sight to my Arminius Barrel (0.561") ?

Anyone have one of those pistols listed in the photo - who can tell me it's diameter ?

[Quinnbrian]

32 rimfire and 32 colt long centerfire, are both the same size case, I have a stevens marksman, that shots 32 colt, uses stock 32 rimfire barrel only conversion, was rimfire to centerfire,on the firing pin location...
Great little round to shoot!, and I have another rimfire receiver, that I can put the barrel back in , and shoot 32 rimfire ammo.
Cheers
Brian

[uscra112]

If you start with a Model 101, the centerfire 44 Shot version of the Marksman, you can swap the entire front end of a Marksman onto it and have your centerfire rifle. Just pull the hinge screw and swap. The extractor and all come along with it. No machine work needed. I've done it to get a centerfire .25 Stevens.

If you have a .22 Marksman handy, swap your .32 barrel into it. Bore some .32 Colt centerfire cases ON CENTER to accept a 6mm acorn blank as the primer. (Lots easier than doing it offset.) Load with about 1.2 - 1.5 grains Bullseye. Again, no modification of the original firing pin location, and you don't have to orient the cartridge when you put it in.

*********************

Just remembered, I've got a ratty old .22 #4 roller that I could do this with if I make a new barrel for it.

[uscra112]

@Doctor Bill - I'm 77, but I never watch TV. In 1977 I got divorced, left all the idiot boxes with her, haven't owned one since.

Back's been killing me since about 2016. Surgery in November - not much better. Can walk about 50 feet without crutches, then I collapse.

Few months ago I bought a used Emco Maier Unimat 3 lathe. Sits on my desk in front of the computer when I want to use it. Modifying brass, making small stuff, do it sitting on my office chair. Keeps me busy.

Add Vitamin D to your regimen. Researchers are saying that daily Zinc, C, and D are as good a defense against the CCPVirus as the "vaccines".

[DoctorBill]

Oh, yes - forgot to mention Vit D. Been a Vitamin nut since Grad school in San Diego
in '67. Went big time on Brewer's Yeast. Made me focus my mind - stopped "day Dreaming".
Now I take 25 mg Zinc, 500 mg Vit C, 2000 units Vit D, 6000 units Vit A two times a day.
Cannot take B complex as they make me hurt all over ! ? ? ? ?
Have a PhD in Biochemistry - worked 22 years for Bayer Corp's Allergy Div in Spokane and
retired at 55 (just in time) when they sold it off to Bankers and Low Life's. Then taught Chemistry
at our local Community College for 18 years.

Look up all the Enzymes involved in the Body's Immune Process. Most all of thm require Zinc
as a Co-Factor. Approx 75% of the food you burn goes to run your immune system against
the miriad things trying to eat you alive ! Plus regeneration of your cells after injury.

Not Boolit related - sorry guys. Zinc, Vit C and D will keep you alive for a long time -barring
getting shot by a jealous husband.....course I lost interest in THAT many years ago.

DoctorBill

PS - look up (DO IT !) the US Government's requirement of Vitamin C for Primates !
We have the exact same cellular processes as they do ! Minimum Daily Req my B*tt !

Back to Bullets - Cast 100 more .32 S&W's (LEE 90600) this afternoon. Never know...
I may need them to keep the Russians out of my gun cabinets !
Putin (isn't that his name ?) is the modern day Hitler.

[uscra112]

So, did you learn to say Buy-er instead of Bay-er?

[uscra112]

BTW I re-read that paragraph in the 1895 Ideal Handbook. Their principle beef was with Winchester. Winchester CF cases at first adhered to the same case lengths as the original rimfires. Then they brought out another .32 designed for something called a "Trantor" pistol from England. THAT round had a longer case and a lighter bullet, (still heeled), but they insisted on calling THAT a .32 Long Colt. So for some time there were the UMC Long Colts and the Winchester Long Colts with different cases.

At about that same time, Ideal complains, the .32 Long Rifle appeared, with an even longer case and that silly inside-lubed hollow-base bullet.

These variants might not matter to the guns, but they DID matter when making reloading tools.

Noiw to further muddy the waters, I've been collecting small amounts of .32 RF and CF ammo whenever the prices were right. Trying to decide on a standard trim length for the cases I make, I find that there isn't even agreement on case length among the various RIMFIRE ammo. More anon.

[j4570]

Gun parts has some generic medallions like Indian heads and such

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/categor...ons/medallions

May have to modify them in your lathe.

Neat project you have there. Both of them

When I’ve final fit a sight like that, turn a piece of steel in your lathe the same diameter or maybe slightly smaller than the barrel. Then I put a piece of sand paper over the piece and hold it while I stroke the sight in-line. It will fit the bottom to the barrel contour. It’s easier if the sight is aluminum but you can do it on steel. You could use the actual barrel but the sandpaper makes your contour a little big.

Jason