Ughh... The world is messed up.

[bakerjw]

My son and I often go out for a few beers on Sundays to watch the NHRA drag races.
Today the NHRA was running finals at the track 10 miles up the road. My wife and I were moving wood and heard it,. Quite cool.
So, my son and I are at Applebees this afternoon watching the races. An older guy and a younger woman shows up and take a high top. After a while, she leads him to the restroom which I found odd but not worth noting. The staff also noticed and made comments about it. When they returned, they asked them if everything was ok and were assured that there were no problems.
A while passed and all was going well when this guy walks up and gets in my sons face and tells him that he's going to kick his ass if he talks to him again. Neither me nor his son said anything. It was like WTH? I am not a violent person and will always walk away from confrontation unless it is my visually impaired son.
The bartender gets him to sit back down and apologizes for whatever we said. ***?
The guys companion gets him to go to the truck and gets a to go box. the whole time I am simmering because the bartender has been acting like we caused the issue. She new I was steamed about the whole incident. The bartender told us that the companion wanted to send along apologies for the whole incident.
I posted on another forum about this and got jumped op for getting my feelings hurt. It's not hurt feelings, its just that if you have someone that unpredictable, don't take them out into public.
Just a crap afternoon because of someone that should not have been out among people. It's like a few years back at an Oktoberfest where they have dachshund races. We saw a guy with a cute dachshund. I grew up with one. I go up and he says "Don't get near her, she bites." So... Take her out in public???
the world is turning into a miserable place to be it seems.

[JimB..]

Sounds like he has issues that you are blessed not to have, don’t let it bother you.

BTW, half way through I really thought the story would end with her being a prostitute.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I would have got up and kicked his lunch to the next planet , I will not tolerate someone who weirds out for no reason , the only reason people do stuff like that is drugs and or just plain bullies and bullies are cowards .

Along with people acting weird , have you noticed how they all drive now , forget turn signals and stop signs or lights , and a batch of bikers seemed to think the red means they are good to go and the green for me was wait for them , well does not happen I drive right through as its my light and move your bike .

Do not tolerate stupid , or entitled .

[poppy42]

John Wayne once said in a move I quote:” I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted or talked down to, and I won’t have hands laid upon me! I don’t do this to others, and I won’t tolerate it done to me” now the quote might not be exact, but close enough. This is how I live my life! Now I turn 65 in December, had to many orthopedic surgeries the list here, lots of metal replacement parts. So obviously my response is now tailored to suit my abilities. But do any of those things to me and you can expect a response in kind. There are not too many things someone can do to me that has an already been done in the past! I will not tolerate those things listed above being done to me or my loved ones! Awful hard for a leopard to change his spots especially when it’s an old leopard!

[0verkill]

Well,you said you were having beers,maybe he had too many or whatever pills he took before he got there didn't mix well with it. Could have been somebody with a chemical imbalance, normal 99% of the time but occasionally hears people say **** they didn't say. People can't help that stuff.You did the right thing by not escalating,his friend did the right thing removing him. The bartender is the one sounds like the *******, treating you like it was your fault. May or may not have been the other guys fault, but definitely wasn't yours.

[armoredman]

...

[Triggerfinger]

His mental issues are not your problem, but you did the right thing. People like that can go zero to ninety in a heartbeat and who knows what he had in the truck to come back at you with.

[BJK]

You did the right thing by keeping your cool. I hope you kept furtive eyes on him the rest of the time he was there. Who knows what he was capable of? We see violence, which he was threatening you with having certain social rules. But many people live in a world of asocial violence and to them rules don't apply. Those people should be locked up with the rest of the asocial animals but the evil folks in power release them into society. Again, who knows what could have happened and since you could have been reacting to someone to whom rules don't apply you'd come out on the losing end.

Example... rules don't apply so he immediately makes a killing blow.

Yes, the world is messed up and getting worse.

[contender1]

I agree with many of the others,, you did right by NOT escalating the issue. And yes,, the bartender should have seen that the other jerk was the initiator & not allowed him to start anything.

We who are gun owners,, and carry for SD,, NEED to be of the personality to where we avoid the potential physical confrontations that could result in major problems. Be willing to walk away,, accept minor infractions of your personal beliefs, to avoid things escalating to where it becomes violent. A good example if my mindset happened many years ago.
My Dad,, my brother, & myself are all Vets. My Dad asked me once; "Why do you carry that gun,, what are you scared of?" My reply was; "Dad, I'm not scared of anything,, but I'm prepared for anything. But I'll avoid things as much as possible." My Dad replied; "Ok, good."

I've avoided & tried to avoid any potential places or things that could lead to an elevated issue that could become very very quickly.

You did good.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I think you did well, and probably what I would have done under the same.

[Thumbcocker]

I went to visit a relative at a nursing home. A man came up to me as soon as I walked in the door and yelled "Whose your mother" in a belligerent voice with aggressive posture.

He had alzheimers. He calmed down when he was talked to by my aunt. It made sense in the nursing home. In a public setting I would have reacted. Maybe you had a similar situation. The fact that the young lady took him to the bathroom makes me think that might be the case. You did the right thing.

[bakerjw]

My wife's step dad is a Viet Nam vet and lashes out a lot. Ugly stuff. Just mean spirited hateful things. It always leaves my mother in law to apologize for his behavior. He was berating a waitress one night and I told him to be nice. I actually thought that he was going to shoot me then. I told my wife last night that I'm sick and tired of dealing with nut jobs. Whatever the guys problem is, he has my sympathy. BUT... The the entire situation would have pivoted in a heart beat had he struck my son.

I am not a violent person nor do I go seeking altercations. If someone, like my wife's step dad, is being a donkey, I walk away to avoid confrontation. There are so many guys out there that just look for a reason to punch somebody, willing to resort to violence at the slightest provocation but that is not in my makeup. I like people and see everyone as a friend. I am well known for being able to talk to anyone.

No harm and no foul at the end of the day. I felt sorry for the young woman having to deal with all of the grief. Out for a nice afternoon dinner and then BAM... It all goes down the drain for no reason at all.

We ended up at my sons house watching the final rounds and all was well. Two women won motorcycle and funny car and Mike Salinas who runs a junkyard won top fuel.

[country gent]

I feel you and your son did the right thing in remaining calm and collected, escalating the incident wouldnt have gained anything and by remaining calm other patrons seen you and would be witness to the fact if he did push it farther. A verbal threat is seldom cause for a physical reply, and wouldnt have been a good ending to this.

It sounds like the bartender knew him or of him and was trying to appease him also to avert any escalation. These guys work in a "rough" environment and a known problem customer is often appeased rather than other means.

While I carry, I will walk away any and every time I can. I would much rather walk away than go thru taking a life. A loud mouth bully isnt worth the hassles that will come if you escalate it. Most states Self defense laws state you must be in fear of PHYSICAL or life threatening injury, verbal threats or insults arnt going to do it in court.

Also believe it or not, If you make the first actual physical move the courts may interpret that as Him being justified in defending himself instead of what really took place. There are those who will push verbally then when the person retaliates and a fight ensues will sue for damages getting big payday from it.

[BJK]

While I carry, I will walk away any and every time I can. I would much rather walk away than go thru taking a life.

Precisely! OK, here's what will and can happen if we're involved in a shooting. The cops show up and don't know what's going on. You'll be put in handcuffs. Maybe they'll sort it out and release you, or maybe you'll find yourself behind bars until they do. Assume the worst. Even if it's a clean shooting the DA might be out to make a name for himself and charge you. That means a trial. And you'll need a lawyer and that costs lots of $. We can lose everything all over words? But assume it's physical. First disengage if possible. Make every attempt. Loudly, for other people to hear and attract eyes , "Get away, stay back, leave me alone!", words to that effect, hopefully there will be time. Then and only if you can't disengage, and if deadly force is about to be used on you are we justified in using deadly force. Why? Because it will be highly scrutinized and you don't want to find yourself keeping Bubba happy in a cell for 20 to life. Another reason not to use it unless it's a last option is we have to live with it. Most people will find it to be a life changing and mind altering action. For your own mind you need to know that you did everything not to use deadly force and that your action was fully justified. After the shooting and while waiting for the cops to think you're a murderer be sure to do what you can for the fallen. It will bolster your defense.

Oh, and don't brandish to show what you could use to get the other person to back down. Brandishing is illegal pretty much everywhere. They'll remain free and laughing while the cuffs are slapped on you (or me). The only time the firearm is ever removed from the holster is a split second before it's used.

The gent who wrote how much on a knifes edge his use of deadly force is? Best remove that post. That can come back to haunt you.

[bakerjw]

These guys work in a "rough" environment and a known problem customer is often appeased rather than other means.
.

Just for clarity. This was a woman bartender and it was Applebee's on a Sunday afternoon. Family time. Husbands and wives and sometimes the kids. If it were a regular bar, I wouldn't be there as they often have these kinds of bad actors.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yep, you did the right thing by remaining cool headed. Some guys just love to start a fight, remember that episode of "Married with Children" where they go to the bar, just to get into a fight...I personally know some people like that, they get addicted to the adrenalin rush.

SNIP>>>

No harm and no foul at the end of the day. I felt sorry for the young woman having to deal with all of the grief. Out for a nice afternoon dinner and then BAM... It all goes down the drain for no reason at all.

Don't fool yourself, lots of women love the drama of that lifestyle...they are attached to those fight'n Men for a reason.

[almar]

I had a similar incident last year, we were out for a mothers day dinner with a bunch of people, one older couple in their 60's was with us that day and after dinner we were in front of the restaurant and this guy comes walking up and tells the woman, "why don't you get out of the way *cursewords*". A switch went on in my mind, like a rush of adrenaline, I was hyper focused on hurting the "threat" to satisfaction. No rational thought, no pondering on consequences after the fact, just action. The older woman saw this and with a shaking voice said my name and "no don't, don't". That snapped me back to reality and although she thanked me recently for that, I would rather thank her for preventing me to do what I was about to do. Reality is that there always will be jerks out there, don't fall into their trap because the judge wont be merciful. If you rise in anger, you sit back down at a loss.

[waksupi]

I've seen this behavior with people who have had a major heart incident. Hugh changes in character and behavior. I took care of a friend after bypass surgery. He had always been real reserved,and never told anyone of his previous life. The second night I was at his house, he woke me up around 2am, and asked me to help him out of bed. For the next three hours, he told me of his life in the military, and his involvement with the early space program, and the astronauts he still kept in touch with. He had me get out his Presidential Citations,and his service medals. For the next couple months, he was prone to outburst somewhat like you experienced. You never know how a major medical event will affect someone. Since he had an escort, I suspect this is what you ran in to.

[MaryB]

I feel you and your son did the right thing in remaining calm and collected, escalating the incident wouldnt have gained anything and by remaining calm other patrons seen you and would be witness to the fact if he did push it farther. A verbal threat is seldom cause for a physical reply, and wouldnt have been a good ending to this.

It sounds like the bartender knew him or of him and was trying to appease him also to avert any escalation. These guys work in a "rough" environment and a known problem customer is often appeased rather than other means.

While I carry, I will walk away any and every time I can. I would much rather walk away than go thru taking a life. A loud mouth bully isnt worth the hassles that will come if you escalate it. Most states Self defense laws state you must be in fear of PHYSICAL or life threatening injury, verbal threats or insults arnt going to do it in court.

Also believe it or not, If you make the first actual physical move the courts may interpret that as Him being justified in defending himself instead of what really took place. There are those who will push verbally then when the person retaliates and a fight ensues will sue for damages getting big payday from it.

I went up to the local bar to have a couple beers with friends. A dude I knew from out of town came up and was getting in my face so I told him not interested please leave. He slapped me. Then walked off. I told the bartender he needed to be removed because he was massively drunk but he was a buddy of the bartenders. Dude slapped me again and I told the bartender if he does it again violence is going to happen in your bar. Bartender still refused to remove him and kept serving him.

Dude went to slap me a third time so I grabbed his arm, yanked him forward off balance and broke it over the edge of the bar. Bartender called the cops on me saying I started it but 3/4 of the bar backed me when the cops showed and when the bar owner showed the bartender was fired for serving someone who should have been cut off and escorted out. Owner offered me some free drinks which I turned down. Told him I had taken care of the issue then he heard that I had broke the dudes arm. He laughed and said he had it coming(which he did, some people need to learn the meaning of NO).

Guy who's arm I broke came in a month later and apologized. He said he was way out of line and was in AA to stop drinking, he was letting it ruin his life and my breaking his arm drove that point home. Along with the 4 weeks in jail for assault for hitting me and drunk and disorderly...

I am a patient person, very hard to get my temper going but I do have a limit!

[MUSTANG]

My son and I often go out for a few beers on Sundays to watch the NHRA drag races.
Today the NHRA was running finals at the track 10 miles up the road. My wife and I were moving wood and heard it,. Quite cool.
So, my son and I are at Applebees this afternoon watching the races. An older guy and a younger woman shows up and take a high top. After a while, she leads him to the restroom which I found odd but not worth noting. The staff also noticed and made comments about it. When they returned, they asked them if everything was ok and were assured that there were no problems.
A while passed and all was going well when this guy walks up and gets in my sons face and tells him that he's going to kick his ass if he talks to him again. Neither me nor his son said anything. It was like WTH? I am not a violent person and will always walk away from confrontation unless it is my visually impaired son.
The bartender gets him to sit back down and apologizes for whatever we said. ***?
The guys companion gets him to go to the truck and gets a to go box. the whole time I am simmering because the bartender has been acting like we caused the issue. She new I was steamed about the whole incident. The bartender told us that the companion wanted to send along apologies for the whole incident.
I posted on another forum about this and got jumped op for getting my feelings hurt. It's not hurt feelings, its just that if you have someone that unpredictable, don't take them out into public.
Just a crap afternoon because of someone that should not have been out among people. It's like a few years back at an Oktoberfest where they have dachshund races. We saw a guy with a cute dachshund. I grew up with one. I go up and he says "Don't get near her, she bites." So... Take her out in public???
the world is turning into a miserable place to be it seems.

My read is totally different than most here. I smell the twigging into the head and snorting or otherwise taking drugs; then "Feeling Invincible & Paranoid" after leaving the Head deciding to pick a fight.

Avoid a fight where possible; but if not possible, then end it as soon as possible with as little force as necessary - but enough to end it so that myself and others are not harmed. I will not tolerate an attack on myself or others.

Nugh said; I'll go back to sitting with my back to the wall and watching the best and worst of humanity do their thing until they drag me into it.