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Thread: Simple question: 45-70 to size or not to size after PC?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Simple question: 45-70 to size or not to size after PC?

    Greetings from New Zealand
    I have a pretty straightforward question - I have searched the forum, but can't find a conclusive answer...

    Background
    I have been PCing 44mag, 45ACP for a number of years. All good. Cast, coat, size, shoot.
    I am now about to start with 45-70.
    I have the Lee 405gn RNFP mould, brand new ready for use. I have very ample supplies of COWW, SOWW, pure lead, tin to add to the mix (I typically use 49% COWW, 49% SOWW, 2% tin).
    Rifle is Marlin 1895GS. (I haven't and don't have means to slug bore)

    The issue I have is that I simply cannot source a Lee bullet sizer in this calibre. I would get a .457 one and use that to make all projectiles consistent, but given the world's shipping problems, the local reloading store hasn't had restock of Lee items for months and months. No end in sight.

    The question
    What is likely to happen if I use unsized PC'd projectiles?
    Inconsistency I guess? Limited risk from what I read. Anything else to be wary of?
    TIA

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I would be concerned that an unsized & coated bullet would be rather large. If it fits in your throat / chambers, that would be good. To slug the barrel, all you have to do is pound a soft lead plug in one end and drive it through to the other. Oil it - be gentle - and be careful not to mar any surfaces.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Castaway's Avatar
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    Any chance you could scrounge a Lee sizer and open it up?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    405grain's Avatar
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    The normal size for a 45-70 bullet is .458" Why would you size it .457"? If the cast bullet is under sized not only will it be inaccurate, but the gas blow-by will encourage leading of the barrel. With a cast bullet, a diameter of .459" might be more desirable. As a general rule, if an unsized bullet will chamber, it will probably shoot. However, for best accuracy it's usually better to size the slug. Besides Lee, NOE makes a push-through sizer. When I first started out I just machined a bushing with a .459" hole, smoothed the edges, then pushed the bullets through it with an arbor press. You can probably shoot your unsized bullets with good results, but you'll probably have better results sizing them.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Dom's Avatar
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    I cast bullets ( RSBS 405gr GC ) for my Marlin 45-70 , with Ballard deep Grove rifling. I cast, PC then size, .460. They shoot great, 1400 to 1500 fps. Old scrap WW is all I use. BHN 10.5. To not size could drive pressures way up. kind of like a bore obstruction, I would think.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
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    Titan will ship.

    Grab the .457 and open it up to .4585. Works for my Marlin 1895 SBL.

    https://www.titanreloading.com/produ...ng-sizing-kit/

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy iron brigade's Avatar
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    I shoot the Lee 405 HB hi-tek coated and sized to .459 in my marlin 1895 CB using 31 grains of I4198. Velocity is about 1300 fps. Accuracy is about 1"-1.5" at 100 yards. WW alloy +2% tin.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    Slugging your bore is easy. Drill a half inch hole in a piece of hardwood. Melt some of your pure lead and pour in hole. Remove lead plug and drive it gently through your oiled bore, NOT using a wooden dowel. Catch the resulting plug on a soft cloth and measure it.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Toymaker's Avatar
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    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/LEE-SIZE-458
    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/LEE-SIZE-459
    Slugging the bore is really easy. Someone said oil the bore, I found grease to work a little better. I have found unsized coated bullets give me better groups in my rolling block.

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by 405grain View Post
    The normal size for a 45-70 bullet is .458" Why would you size it .457"?
    Because that's the size Lee make Yes, I would open it up a bit

    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Titan will ship.
    Great, thanks for the heads up, never tried Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Slugging your bore is easy. Drill a half inch hole in a piece of hardwood. Melt some of your pure lead and pour in hole. Remove lead plug and drive it gently through your oiled bore, NOT using a wooden dowel. Catch the resulting plug on a soft cloth and measure it.
    Brilliant, thanks for this advice - that's what these forums are for.
    I can easily make the lead this way (I thought I would need a ball mould in a calibre I would never use)
    The only issue is obtaining a brass rod here........

  11. #11

  12. #12
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Slugging your bore is easy. Drill a half inch hole in a piece of hardwood. Melt some of your pure lead and pour in hole. Remove lead plug and drive it gently through your oiled bore, NOT using a wooden dowel. Catch the resulting plug on a soft cloth and measure it.

    What do you use in place of the woodn dowel?
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
    white eagle's Avatar
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    why not size
    to use unsized boolits in you firearm goes against the grain
    of what you are trying to do
    namely accurate cast projectiles that said if your gun shoots
    probably oversized boolits accurately then go for it
    I have not had that luxury but everyone has a different experiences
    pc size check and shoot has been what works for me
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    I second the NOE "Push Through Size Die Body.

    "https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/sizing-tools/bushing-push-through-size-die/push-through-size-die-body/

    Body Bushing

    https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...-bushing-b460/

    Push Rod

    https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop...push-rod-45pr/

    Nice thing about NOE, you just need the bushing and push rod for another cal and you are off and running.

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold
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    Don't bother with trying to get anything from NOE, He's a nice guy, but way to busy, I gave up trying to get my order sent by him, not helped by him using USPS which aint shipping to NZ at the moment.

    I have had the same issue getting sizing dies, in fact just about anything related to my new 38-55 Uberti 94. Scotty from Reloaders sorted me a couple of smaller dia LEE dies and got them reamed out to my desired dimensions. Works a treat.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
    What do you use in place of the woodn dowel?
    a brass rod, especially if u plan to do a pound cast of throat. for 30 cal I use a 1/4” brass rod and because I am anal I used some heat shrink to take up most of the slop so that it won’t slap the bore.

    with brass you can peen the end so that your rod fits the bore. over peen on purpose and then file off until it will just fit. this keeps the lead slug from from flowing back up around the rod and wedging everything in the barrel.

    I’d think a 3/8” rod would work with a peened business end and some heat shrink to. cushion the slapping.
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toymaker View Post
    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/LEE-SIZE-458
    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/LEE-SIZE-459
    Slugging the bore is really easy. Someone said oil the bore, I found grease to work a little better. I have found unsized coated bullets give me better groups in my rolling block.
    I'd go this route. Didn't know about these custom sizes. Shipping costs are ridiculous (52 USD to Finland) but at least they have sizers in stock and ship.

    Last time I bought two NOE expander plugs ,6.50 USD each, I paid $32 for shipping flat rate envelope. Then the customs charge for total (shipping+goods) was $15. Funny that you pay vat for shipping costs,too.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Toymaker's Avatar
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    physeptone & Petander - another option is to "beagle" a mold to make it slightly larger. Do a search about how to beagle a mold. This is a temporary change that can be undone at any time. It results in a slightly oval bullet which is then fed through a sizer of the appropriate diameter. I read the thread about this several years ago. For a 45-70 I could find the sizer I needed but not the right sized mold for the bullet I wanted to use. I "beagled" the mold and it worked perfectly.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Just grease a pure PC coated and pound through the bore - doesn't have to be round.
    Whatever!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toymaker View Post
    physeptone & Petander - another option is to "beagle" a mold to make it slightly larger. Do a search about how to beagle a mold.
    Or just buy a proper mold in the first place. I have loaded cast 45-70 since the 90's, it's one of my favorite calibers. I have maybe six molds now, 325-570 grainers, an NLG etc.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check