Ugh, not another backwoods predator defense thread!

[bakerjw]

Stay with the handgun and be more situationally aware.
I have done long distance cycling in the Canadian and US rockies. Up in some VERY remote areas. I remember pedaling over whitefish Pass in an are where the road was cut into a hillside. There was a 6 to 8 foot shelf immediately to my left and I wondered how many cyclists had been stalked along areas like that before.

Big cats can get aggressive with humans but they usually just run away. That said, my friend Bonnie had a mountain stare her down on Galton Pass in B.C. a few years back.

ETA... A few years back, me, my son and a friend were in deep B.C. We'd already pedaled over Lodgepole Pass and were near the top of Cabin Pass. It was windy, hot and dry. We'd put in 70 miles so far in the day and were pretty quiet and drained. Right near the top of the pass, a mountain lion jumped up out of a large clump of grass and ran away. We barely had time to get out bear spray out of our holsters. I carry my bear spray on a custom holster on my handlebar near my right hand.

[MrWolf]

Black bears are more common where I am at. I have game cam pics of Momma and three cubs not 100 yes from our place a few years ago. Had an annoying one come to within 50' of the house on my driveway and spoked me as I walked around my truck. I was not armed but I typically carry my SA 10mm in a Kenai chest holster when we walk our 81 acres. Never want to come between Momma and her cubs. I would carry my 10 vs a shotgun as that shotgun is gonna get heavy and take away from why we are out walking. Typically we have our dogs with us also, but that one bear was not afraid of them either. More worried about them attacking the bear trying to protect us. Good luck

[dverna]

if you dont want to get surprised by an animal 10 times quicker than you......take a dog with you....Weighted down with guns and ammo ...when alls needed is an average dog...not some savage monster that the illegal hunters use ,just an average dog.

This seems like the best advice so far. A dog will give you some time to get a gun into play. IMO a carry gun against a cougar focused on making you dinner does not present good odds for most folks. Trying to justify a 1911 is just fooling yourself. Nothing magic about the 1911 in spite of its fans. OTOH, carrying a shotgun is not the easiest thing to do even if it is the best weapon.

If is was me, I would carry a Glock 22 as that is what I have. But .40S&W might be a tad light. A 10mm would be better. Better yet a .44 Mountain Gun. I would need something easy to carry or I will not carry it. Even with a dog to distract the animal, you may not get many shots off. The issue is, are you prepared to fire even if it means hitting your dog?

I have lived in bear country for 9 years and never had a bad encounter. All I know about cougars is what I read and they seem to be a bigger threat than black bears. IIRC most attacks have been on people in the woods alone. Just having someone else with you might dissuade an attack. With two of you and a dog, the odds are a cougar will look for an easier meal.

[centershot]

You’ve thought about it all you need to. Buy the shotgun and 4 or 5 boxes of the cheapest shells you can find….they’re fine to practice with at 20 yds in. Guessing you don’t reload so I’d buy 2 3/4” #1 buckshot. All the power at close range, good pattern fill and lots less recoil than 3”.

^^^^ This! The Shockwave is perfect for what you describe, although as already stated, the likelihood of attack is low. Personally, I never go into the forest without a good defensive weapon.

[DougGuy]

The cougar contacts I have seen on youtube are realistic, the cat doesn't attack instantly, unless you somehow manage to get REALLY close to it before it figures out you are there, they size up the challenge first, then they carry out this orderly process that's half stalking half false charges.

You probably scared the cat more than the cat scared you to be honest, first there were two of you, this alone would be a huge deterrent to the cat, he/she likely was already running when it saw you, and I am sure that spurred it on even faster gettin' the hell outta dodge.

Back to the encounter, with a shotgun and buckshot, if you were on rocky ground, shooting at the ground directly in front of the cat (a likely place to hit in the event of a miss) would scatter rocks, dirt, and buckshot in the cat's face (same way police use a diffuser and aim for the pavement in front of a line of protesters, they want the shot to bounce and spread out). By now the cat has probably had enough to change it's mind about continuing to move toward you. You simply do not have this option with a handgun firing a single projectile.

Edit: Ickisrulz' suggestion below to bring a dog along is very good advice. Not only will the dog know there is a predator in the area before you do, but the predator would go for the dog way before it would go for a human.

[Ickisrulz]

if you dont want to get surprised by an animal 10 times quicker than you......take a dog with you....Weighted down with guns and ammo ...when alls needed is an average dog...not some savage monster that the illegal hunters use ,just an average dog.

That pretty much goes for home defense too. Dogs are great.

[trebor44]

Seeing a large cat in the wild is a good thing, not seeing it means you are close to becoming a meal. Really think about it! Bear spray in hand can help, a large caliber weapon is a maybe. If you are concentrating on the hiking and not scanning for predator's (two and four legged) you are at a disadvantage, the event will be up close and personal! Stick with what you have for the present and buy a tool for the future if you so desire!

[RogerDat]

I seem to recall cats are ambush hunters, that typically drop or hit from close in a surprise attack. That argues that any chance to bring a weapon to play in an attack that takes place is going to be point blank or hand to paw combat. I would think any pistol that you can manage to bring to the fight at point blank range deals with a cat. You take your licks but can presume it is a first aid situation rather than an obituary since you did a mag dump at point blank into what was biting you.

Bear I think you could still end up as an obituary with about any handgun in a close in struggle. Recall reading of a hunter with a 20 gauge and bird shot that was killed by a bear. The bear was found dead nearby, had taken a face shot that broke the jaw and caused eventually fatal damage. Firearm didn't do the job for the hunter.

12 gauge slug is a bear stopper, not sure about large buckshot. I would think bear being the more likely threat that one would go prepared for that. Any smaller carry pistol has the advantage of being more likely to be on your person when camping, but walking I would think a 12 gauge, poly stock, minimum barrel length with a comfortable sling makes the most sense from a protection standpoint.

Carry is an issue, any weapon can get heavy after a while. Shotgun you won't carry is useless. Pistol you shift to your day pack because it chafes matters. Not that I think you can outdraw a close charging predator, but having it in hand my make facing one down as you back off easier. Armed I think one presents an entirely different stance and attitude. I had a charging dog with a reputation for biting (dang thing jumped a 5 ft fence to go for myself and dog on a walk) I had a belt knife that came out and I switched to "feed it my bad arm and stab with the good arm" stance and the dog literally slid to a stop and started barking from a snarling charge. They also get cautious about a walking stick that shifts to an offensive/defensive stance. So having some weapon you can bring to the face off I think makes a difference in face off and back up situations.

Those are when having a dog that can be called off and to you to back up makes a big difference. Other than that concern I would be 100% in favor of having a dog. Have a dog now that would be difficult to control, too much attitude and too interested in challenging every darn critter that comes along except other dogs. To be clear pretty sure since dog isn't crazy a bear would get challenged from what seemed like a safe distance, a distance that would double if the bear did any aggressive move.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I try to have a dog along when out wandering, had lions and bears in Colorado, might be some lions here in Wyoming, of course lions and bears (wolves?) where I hunt elk. Mostly have had Chesapeke's to keep the dangerous critters away or distracted. Any dog will detect and distract critters, stay armed to save the dog. I've always debated (with myself) if a revolver or semi-auto would be better in close contact roll around fight, slide interference, poor grip on the semi-auto. I do normally carry a Para-Ord P14-45 but capacity is not the issue though 14 45's does sound good. When carrying a rifle I normally don't carry a handgun.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I live in PA and when I go afield, usually with a dog and a 4'' S&W 629-3 .44 Magnum loaded with RCBS 44-250-K boolits at around 1,000fps. (think 10gr. Unique here). If a self loading pistol would be in order, my first choice would be a 10mm loaded with Hornady 180gr. XTP bullets at around 1,200fps. Second choice, heavy loaded .38 Super, 147gr Hornady XTP at 1,200fps. would do also.

Below is a link to factory loaded handgun ammo and ballistic gel tests that give an idea of what will do what in gel. It's not all inclusive, but you will see what preforms uniformly and, (hopefully) effectively. .380, 9mm, .40, and .45ACP are listed, at the end of the .45ACP test there's links for, .38Spl/.357 Magnum, .357Sig, and 10mm. Look for expansion, penetration, and uniformity. For instance, the 10mm Hornady XTP 180gr. load does all three extremely well, it expands to .64, penetrates to almost 17'', and does it with excellent uniformity. In 9mm the Winchester 147gr. PDX-1 ain't no slouch expanding to .54, penetrating 20.6'' uniformly, and it's a caliber you already have, (though finding the ammo may be a challenge right now). Over all the Hornady XTP bullets, (available for handloading) seem to be very effective and uniform. I use them in .38 Super, 10mm, and .45ACP +P loads in mid-weight/heavy weight bullet loads which the Hornady XTP also shows it's merits.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...c-tests/#45ACP

I fully agree with who made the statement of having a dog with you, they'll hear, smell, or sense a dangerous animal long before you will.

[Walks]

I took both a Cougar and a Blk Bear in My youth. Both treed over dogs. Used a .357Mag on one and a .30-30 on the other. I spent many long hours "Woods Walking" in the Eastern Sierras. Saw tracks but never a live animal.
Never felt undergunned with a .357Mag, it's what I would probably carry today. If I could.
So load that .38Spl with a good 158gr bullet, and keep hiking.

[waksupi]

For those recommending dogs, dogs have a rather disconcerting habit of running into danger, and bringing it back to you for help!

[Texas by God]

I've been waiting for 47 years to see the SECOND mountain lion on our farm; I'll never forget the first! I never give it a thought when I'm walking around in the post oak forest.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[trebor44]

For armchair reading and enlightenment: "The Beast in the Garden". Interesting accounts and a fun read!

[quilbilly]

We are overrun with the big kitties around here. Unless you are right in towns, the deer population has become almost non-existent. During the week long muzzleloading season two weeks ago around here, I saw more of the cats than I saw deer walking and driving the clearcuts. That is a bad sign for the deer and they have responded well by staying close to houses, roads, and in towns like Port Townsend where it has become virtually impossible to have a garden without an 8 foot fence. Currently, according to the trail cams I have on our property we have a young female lion (not more than 70#) around regularly and a nice sized tom about 180# wandering through about very few weeks. Both look healthy and sleek. It won't be long until the cats begin to starve and that is when I will get nervous especially when I start to tap our maples to make syrup in a couple months. The good news around here is that they have always eaten the coyotes which I detest and that makes them good neighbors - sort of.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I still recommend a dog, but Waksupi is right, I still smile when I remember by Springer running back to us with a 5 point bull elk after her. A shout ended the chase, though I thought a shot over his end might be needed.

[alfadan]

I'd say just carry what ya got. An attack would be so unlikely and since it would probably jump on you from above, a long gun isn't going to be very handy. lugging around a shotgun all the time for a slim chance would be like walking a patrol and standing guard all the time.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Seems like as good an excuse as any to buy a new gun to me.

[GhostHawk]

Shotgun hands down, any shotgun, any load.

Buckshot is good. At close range it does not matter much.

Slung over your right shoulder, muzzle down. Left hand grabs barrel and pulls, right hand grabs action and your ready to go.
When not needed its out of the way. Pistol grip or full stock is up to you.

Don't take a boy to do a man's job.

Ohh and practice. Practice getting it into action from strange postures and situations.
Practice reloading.
When you've run out the tube magazine practice throwing single rounds in the action and slam it shut, shoot it, rack it open, repeat.

And if you only get one shot, well its a lot better shot. And it might scare a cat off, which would be a win win.

[reloader28]

The 38 and 9mm are fine with the right ammo AS LONG AS YOU CARRY IT.
You should be ashamed of yourself. She had your back but who had hers??? Not you
Save your money for good ammo and carry the guns you already have