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Thread: Lyman M die vs. Lee universal expander: Seeking comparisons

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Bibliotecario View Post
    As one of the latheless I appreciate the many useful comparisons of the off the shelf dies.
    ^^^what he said. Latheless, I like that.
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  2. #22
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    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
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    I use my lee expander to fix out of round case openings.
    One round at a time.
    Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.

  3. #23
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    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    NOE makes expanders that fit in the Lee body. They work great and are offered in a number of sizes and not very expensive. You will have to size the case first.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Guys, the Lyman M body die comes in two sizes, long and short. You can use the same expander in both - thus the 30-06 expander can be put in the short body die and used for the carbine or for .30 pistol cases as well.

    Yes, there is no comparasion between the Lyman and the Lee dies - they are two separate ideas accomplished in two separate ways to solve a single problem. Lyman does it much better.
    I was going to post about the 2 size of Lyman , till I seen your post. I had got the long one and I use it for all my 30 cal.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  5. #25
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    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    I have both and switch back and forth frequently, especially in quarter bore. 25-20 and 25 Krag AI that I'm feeding.
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  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    apples and oranges

    I have both - over the years, the Lee has been used for certain things but it flairs - not like the M die. I spent a bit of money on M-dies - especially for rifle cartridges - all I shooy is cast. A few months ago, I purchased a good selection on the NOE expanding plugs that work in the Lee Universal Expander die - they work great. IMHO - that is the way to go.

    I'm not being critical of the Lee die - it's nice to have when you need it - for want of a better description - it taper flairs so I kind of compare it to a shoehorn.

  7. #27
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    RogerDat's Avatar
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    I buy a Lee Expander and NOE insert for most calibers I load. The consistency I feel on seating die station tells me the difference getting consistent neck tension makes. I would say I see it on target but that would require shall we say facts not in evidence, better ammo don't make me a better shot but I will say the larger mold and sizing die and neck sizing adds up to more consistent accuracy than store bought.

    I have a few turrets set up with "special" dies. Universal decapper AND a Lee Universal expander are two dies on those special turrets. When I remove primers for cleaning and have a mouth that is a little distorted a quick twist of the turret to the expander allows me to bump the mouth and confirm the case can be given a round mouth again. Avoids issues when I'm feeding the brass to a form die later.

    The Lee "expander" prevents lead shaving, nothing more, nothing less. Should provide the least amount of flaring needed to accomplish that. Well maybe it makes it a bit easier to get the bullet positioned upright when seating in addition to preventing lead shaving. I adjust so the die does very little working of the mouth of the case.

    The NOE is providing consistent neck tension matched to the bullet. Makes things more consistent and as others have pointed out avoids squeezing your carefully sized lead projectile down to some default case neck diameter. My first was for 303 British cast at .314 for a reason, wasn't going to be leaving the case mouth at .314 if not for the neck expander because .312 is "normal" bullet the case sizing die is made for.
    Last edited by RogerDat; 10-15-2021 at 07:44 PM.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    After digesting the above useful information...

    RE the NOE expander plugs and their descriptions: If one is loading .309 bullets, does one order the .309 x .305 plug, or must one
    calculate the clearance factor and order the .310 x .306 plug?
    (I am assuming the second figures (.305; .306 are the length of the actual plug??)

    Am I correct assume all I will need is a Lee Expander (actually flaring) die and the NOE plug of the appropriate size, which will drop into the Lee die and work without needing anything else?

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    For .309 cast bullet select .312x308. But that one is out of stock so maybe get .313x309?

    https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...-rifle/page/2/

    Yes, all you would need is the Lee die and the NOE expander plug.

    The larger number is the upper part of the plug which opens the first few thousandths of the case mouth oversize to guide the bullet as you seat it. Same as the Lyman plug does.
    Last edited by uscra112; 10-18-2021 at 06:33 AM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    For .309 cast bullet select .312x308. But that one is out of stock so maybe get .313x309?

    https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...-rifle/page/2/

    Yes, all you would need is the Lee die and the NOE expander plug.

    The larger number is the upper part of the plug which opens the first few thousandths of the case mount oversize to guide the bullet as you seat it. Same as the Lyman plug does.
    Thanks for this tidbit of information, I’ve always wondered what their numbers meant but keep forgetting to call and ask. So basically the first number is the ‘flare’ diameter and the second number would be the number needed for whatever bullet diameter you need.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    I started out using the Lee universal die for my 308 and 30-30 loads. It made a rather crude bell on the case mouths but did not promote concentric boolit seating. I then switched to the Noe expanders ( you use these with the Lee die body) and they worked much better.

  12. #32
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    I must be doing something wrong. I use Lee expander dies in all of my rifle loads and I have yet to seat a bullet crooked.

    I'll try again today, I am loading 75 rounds of 308.

  13. #33
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    RCBS makes a 30 cal neck expander that also bells the mouth a smidge. They offer a variety of spuds that screw into the die to give a wide variety of inside neck diameters that will cover all cast bullet needs.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Since 2010 RCBS pistol expanders have been "M" type? So i read. True or false? My new 2021 9mm Luger has the M expander.



    For the 30-06 the Lyman M die is the one i used
    Last edited by 243winxb; 10-18-2021 at 11:38 AM.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    I have 3, the lee universal, the Lyman universal and m dies, for most calibers I end up using the m dies.
    they will all work once set up properly

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sghart3578 View Post
    I must be doing something wrong. I use Lee expander dies in all of my rifle loads and I have yet to seat a bullet crooked.

    I'll try again today, I am loading 75 rounds of 308.
    Try rolling your loaded rounds on a flat surface and watch from the side.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master GWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 243winxb View Post
    Since 2010 RCBS pistol expanders have been "M" type? So i read. True or false? My new 2021 9mm Luger has the M expander.



    For the 30-06 the Lyman M die is the one i used
    The only RCBS pistol expanders that have the "M" shelf, that I know about, is the powder-through expanders made to drop into Uniflows. I don't think any of their expander plugs that go into an expander die do....that I'm aware of anyway. The exception is the new rifle expanders.

    The new rifle expanders that come with the new Tube Rifle Bullet Feeder dies definitely do. I tested one a while back and liked it so well I bought the .308 version too. The single .223 bullet stuck straight, with no bullet stack necessary even. So far they only come in .223 and .308. Noe plugs in the Lee expanders are the only show in town for pistol expander dies beyond RCBS's and DAA's Powder through expanders in Uniflows or Dillon powder measures. (that I'm aware of)

    Test video below....single bullet (no stack) with case first expanded with their M style expander:



    Nice straight hold held well enough for any progressive merry-go-round.
    Last edited by GWS; 10-21-2021 at 12:16 AM.

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    The problem with the M dies is you need a seperate one for each and every caliber.

    Granted the Lee does not do the same thing. But you can buy one reasonably priced die and get by.
    I truly believe we need to get back to basics.

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  19. #39
    Boolit Master GWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    The problem with the M dies is you need a seperate one for each and every caliber.

    Granted the Lee does not do the same thing. But you can buy one reasonably priced die and get by.
    I suppose we all have less or more aggravation tolerance. Mine is lower....that's why I have two progressives.....and my progressives have separate removable die holders.......one for each caliber. Even if I was able to "tolerate" the Lee Universal Expander, I'd have to have one for each die head. I'd much rather have an "M" style expander on each than one that just bevels, and allows each bullet to tilt and have to be fed into the seater by hand.

    And how many of us have experienced bitten, or pinched fingers being a little too slow getting them out of the way, while trying trying to load with some semblance of smooth and continuous operation.

    I suppose if you load with a single stage you can "get by"and patience is your virtue.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    a homebrew Lyman M-die mandrel on the right.
    I like it!!! I cut a spare die so I could run my M die down where I could see it when I bellowed out my 44-40 cases. I like yours a lot!!!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check