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Thread: Anybody hunt with a .45 ACP or have hunting loads?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    "• A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a
    minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80
    inches."

  2. #42
    Boolit Buddy Ateam's Avatar
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    Shot a large doe with a 45acp years ago, before I started casting, with a 200grain XTP @ 1000fps out of a series 70. Shot was about 25 yards, HP failed to open but shot placement was good. She went about 30 yards before rolling over all four feet up in the air, I kid you not. After that failure to open I moved to a softer gold dot for EDC.

    I live in MI and have never heard of 45acp being not allowed, or not considered a straight walled cartridge.

  3. #43
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    It is a straight case. It is not necked .
    But with that being said ANYONE that was going to hunt with a Caliber, Firearm or Ammo there may be a question about it would be edifying to contact the Government office controlling regulation and definitions on terminology to get an official definition. That is what I would do in case I came into contact with a hotshot Game Warden that thought he knew it all.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 View Post
    Unless I am very mistaken wasn't that pertaining to straight wall rifle cartridges?
    You know, I was thinking the very same thing as I was typing that. confusing ain't it. I'm just too lazy to go and look it up. The way I see it, this is a Mi. specific rule being discussed on a national board and I personally have no intention of hunting with my 1911. I have better hand guns for the the task. Those who are directly affected by this ruling need to do their own home work. I'll just bow out of this one.
    Carry on guys.....
    Deplorable infidel

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjwcaster View Post
    Pretty broad,uninformed and incorrect statement.
    Poster originally built the 45 high point for Ohio.

    Page 9 Ohio DNR hunting REGS-

    : With a 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger. The barrel is measured from the front of the cylinder or chamber to the end of the barrel.

    Michigan looks more confusing, but still legal except possibly magazine capacity, an easy fix.

    2021 MI DNR REGS

    Limited firearm zone (P.50)

    A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
    loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

    North of the limited zone (P.51)

    It is legal to hunt deer north of the limited firearm deer zone with any caliber of firearm except a .22-caliber or smaller rimfire (rifle or handgun).

    This is why it’s important to READ the applicable regs for a particular area, especially since things have changed a lot in the past years.

    A 45 semi auto handgun would not be legal in Illinois last I checked, possibly in a revolver.
    semi autos not allowed for deer, no rifles either.
    But that might have changed, haven’t looked lately.

    This is from a quick glance at the regs, I would suggest more in depth research for hunting at specific sites.


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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
    Shot a large doe with a 45acp years ago, before I started casting, with a 200grain XTP @ 1000fps out of a series 70. Shot was about 25 yards, HP failed to open but shot placement was good. She went about 30 yards before rolling over all four feet up in the air, I kid you not. After that failure to open I moved to a softer gold dot for EDC.

    I live in MI and have never heard of 45acp being not allowed, or not considered a straight walled cartridge.
    last time i emailed the state about it, the fact that the 45 acp is SHORTER then the minimum case length, the .357 magnum is one major issue..

    other is that the 45 acp is NOT considered a straight wall cartridge due to it not
    having a case profile like a 45 colt or 357 magnum
    and not have a cartridge RIM

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunkTheory View Post
    last time i emailed the state about it, the fact that the 45 acp is SHORTER then the minimum case length, the .357 magnum is one major issue..

    other is that the 45 acp is NOT considered a straight wall cartridge due to it not
    having a case profile like a 45 colt or 357 magnum
    and not have a cartridge RIM
    So, according to that the 50 AE would not be allowed because it doesn't have a "RIM" like the 45 Colt and 357 Magnum. They need to get those "illogical minded" rule makers out of there.
    Classic example of "those not in the know" making rules for others to have to follow. Goes on everywhere. We let it.
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 10-24-2021 at 07:53 AM.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    I know the title of this thread is about hunting with a 45 ACP and hunting loads but I want to bring up the laws in OH for a example. Ohio began to allow handgun hunting back in the 1980’s and didn’t allow deer hunting with strait walled rifle cartridges until around 2004 . The rules for handguns has always been minimum .357 diameter and larger with a minimum barrel length of 5”. This actually includes 38 S&W & 38 spl. but not 9 mm as I have discussed this with the DNR at meeting they had when adopting the new strait walled rifle rules. You can have ANY barrel length you want over 5” and Any cartridge .357 dia. minimum,
    not that I have seen it but you could use a handgun with a 30” barrel chambered in 458 Win mag and it would be legal. So long barreled handguns like TC contenders with any length barrel and just about any large caliber you want as long as it has a strait walled case is usable.

    Jedman
    Last edited by Jedman; 10-24-2021 at 09:17 AM.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Just curious but did OH allow .45acp? I can actually understand no 9mm as technically the bullet is .355 which is smaller than .357. I suspect that might be the reason they used that number. But, that allows the .38spl to sneak in there, which is kinda lame.

    New Mexico it is easy. Centerfire .22 cal or larger. Even for elk and bear. No distinction between rifle and pistol.

    NM does now have some more restricted muzzle loader hunts that require open sights and full bore bullets (including patched round ball).

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    Hunting with the .45 acp at under 1000 fps on deer-sized game is unethical in my opinion. There, I said it.

    Shooting wild animals with barely adequate loads is just poor sportsmanship. Very few people have the skill to place a shot in the exact spot needed in order to get a humane shot using barely adequate loads.

    I killed my first elk with a .257 Roberts and 120 grain Nosler Partitions at 269 yards. I was under the scrutiny of a friend of Jack O'Connor's and was a natural shot at 13 years of age.

    The .45 acp simply lacks the horsepower to reach the vitals and deliver the energy required to make a clean kill.

    It's fine for human opponents trying to steal your rent money, but game animals deserve more respect and efficient kills.
    This post was the reason I took a self-imposed sabbatical from Cast Boolits for a couple of weeks. I realized that my mouth exceeded my brain.

    A .45 caliber projectile, traveling at 800-900 fps, was entirely capable of killing deer-sized game at reasonable distances.

    No idea why I posted the garbage I did. If I offended anyone with my idiocy, then I apologize.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  11. #51
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    This post was the reason I took a self-imposed sabbatical from Cast Boolits for a couple of weeks. I realized that my mouth exceeded my brain.

    A .45 caliber projectile, traveling at 800-900 fps, was entirely capable of killing deer-sized game at reasonable distances.

    No idea why I posted the garbage I did. If I offended anyone with my idiocy, then I apologize.
    To whom it may concern;
    On or about 10-11-21, @1:14am, I was not offended by a post by Idaho45guy....
    Crazy I know, but that's how I roll....
    Deplorable infidel

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    I did not take offense either. I think that most laws that seem stupid from the point of what caliber and how long the case might be and sometimes a minimum ft. lbs. of energy rely on the hunters to use reasonable judgment in what they use to hunt with. I am a firm believer in waiting until I get exactly the best shot I can before shooting whether it’s a bullet or a arrow because as you say the animals deserve it.
    Using a 45 ACP from a handgun is not for everyone, just like using a 32-20 in a rifle for deer. Both will do the job if your patient and are sure you can make the shot you want.
    As a example, I once shot a small buck at about 25 yards with a antique Stevens tip up rifle I rebarreled to 38 spl.
    It was at a bird feeder in my yard and had a broken leg and was during Ohio’s 2 day extended gun season.
    I simply opened the window and shot the deer from inside my home and the deer went about 75 yards and died.
    I did find the flat nosed 160 gr. cast bullet just under the skin on the opposite side that I shot the deer so the gun I was using may have been lacking some in power but shot placement was perfect and the deer didn’t seem to even know it was shot. 38 spl. Is a legal caliber in OH for deer hunting but I doubt that more than 1 in 10000 have or use a rifle in 38 spl. to hunt with but at the short range and having the perfect broadside shot I had it was a ethical choice .

    Jedman

  13. #53
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    Anybody hunt with a .45 ACP or have hunting loads?

    Quote Originally Posted by BunkTheory View Post
    last time i emailed the state about it, the fact that the 45 acp is SHORTER then the minimum case length, the .357 magnum is one major issue..

    other is that the 45 acp is NOT considered a straight wall cartridge due to it not
    having a case profile like a 45 colt or 357 magnum
    and not have a cartridge RIM
    Email is a horrible way to obtain legally binding answers unfortunately, as you have no idea who is answering.
    Certified mail to the appropriate department/attorney is a better way.
    We deal with this in IL too often such as state police website FAQ pages with incorrect info and more.

    Enforcement officers supplied with incorrect info is another hazard.

    I’ve even seen arrest/no arrest flow sheet provided by a state’s attorney office that contained horribly incorrect information but was provided to local police departments.

    So back to 45 ACP legal for deer in MI-

    Ok, once again I am ASSUMING we are discussing restrictions of the limited firearm zone, is this correct?

    As north of the limited zone is basically unlimited, no .22 or smaller rim fires.

    And this topic is about handguns, not rifles.
    Rifles, straight wall case,allowed with case length limits 1.16” - 1.80”

    Which would prohibit 45ACP in a rifle in the limited zone, case too short.

    Handguns do not list any case length limits, just straight wall.

    So the only issue is the interpretation of straight wall, which in my limited searches I cannot find any Michigan DNR or legal code interpretations/definitions, nor any case law.

    Again reference from the 2021 Michigan hunting digest-

    P.50

    I am hunting during a firearm deer season in the limited firearm deer zone, what equipment can I use?


    A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
    loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

    P.51
    • A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjwcaster View Post
    Email is a horrible way to obtain legally binding answers unfortunately, as you have no idea who is answering.
    Certified mail to the appropriate department/attorney is a better way.
    We deal with this in IL too often such as state police website FAQ pages with incorrect info and more.

    Enforcement officers supplied with incorrect info is another hazard.

    I’ve even seen arrest/no arrest flow sheet provided by a state’s attorney office that contained horribly incorrect information but was provided to local police departments.

    So back to 45 ACP legal for deer in MI-

    Ok, once again I am ASSUMING we are discussing restrictions of the limited firearm zone, is this correct?

    As north of the limited zone is basically unlimited, no .22 or smaller rim fires.

    And this topic is about handguns, not rifles.
    Rifles, straight wall case,allowed with case length limits 1.16” - 1.80”

    Which would prohibit 45ACP in a rifle in the limited zone, case too short.

    Handguns do not list any case length limits, just straight wall.

    So the only issue is the interpretation of straight wall, which in my limited searches I cannot find any Michigan DNR or legal code interpretations/definitions, nor any case law.

    Again reference from the 2021 Michigan hunting digest-

    P.50

    I am hunting during a firearm deer season in the limited firearm deer zone, what equipment can I use?


    A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35-caliber or larger and
    loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

    P.51
    • A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges with a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches.
    https://mucc.org/new-firearm-regulat...hern-michigan/

    the only straight wall cartridges for handguns have a rim... hence no rimless fun. But the exception is when you go to rifles, you can use the 450 bushmaster

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  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunkTheory View Post
    https://mucc.org/new-firearm-regulat...hern-michigan/

    the only straight wall cartridges for handguns have a rim... hence no rimless fun. But the exception is when you go to rifles, you can use the 450 bushmaster
    Call me dense but I don’t see a thing in that article that mentions anything about requiring rimmed cartridges, they just named a few commonly used handgun cartridges that fall within the rifle case length requirements.

    And once again it is only about the then new rifle regulations, not about allowable handgun cartridges.

    On top of that it was not an authoritative article but a very generic and simplistic fluff piece concerning the then new rifle regulations.

    We’ve muddied up this thread enough.

    If someone wants to hunt with a 45acp check the regs for your area.

    I’m not going to hunt in MI, so it doesn’t matter to me.
    But I can read and research and have found nothing nor have you posted anything that would stop me from using my favorite 45 in the restricted MI zone.

    Apologies for the thread hijack, but that hunting HiPoint was really cool and I hope it gets to take a deer someday.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    Even someone like me would check the regulations in a state I planned to hunt in. I know the regulations in the state I live in. I do research.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    I read this and think the person who wrote is full of BS. In the 2021 Michigan hunting guide it says nothing about rimmed cartridges. Apparently this person must think that you cannot buy factory loaded 460 S&W, 500 S&W, or 41 Mag. ?

    Jedman

  19. #59
    Boolit Master roverboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    This post was the reason I took a self-imposed sabbatical from Cast Boolits for a couple of weeks. I realized that my mouth exceeded my brain.

    A .45 caliber projectile, traveling at 800-900 fps, was entirely capable of killing deer-sized game at reasonable distances.

    No idea why I posted the garbage I did. If I offended anyone with my idiocy, then I apologize.
    No problem. Didn't bother me at all. Everybody's got their right to their own opinion.
    Mrs. Hogwallop up and R-U-N-N-O-F-T.

  20. #60
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    My state has regs dumber than your state and I double dog dare yah to stick your tongue to the flag pole.

    OK, about .45ACP hunting loads. Expanding bullets really aren't needed for .45ACP but if you do use hollow points make them a heavy WFN hollow point.

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