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Thread: Range day with a Schoutzen rifle

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Range day with a Schutzen rifle

    I got off work this morning @ 7:30 and decided to go to the range. I have been wanting to take the CPA rifle to the range.

    This is the second time I have shot it. The gun puts me in an odd shooting stance. The palm rest is new to me. Its going to take a few sessions to get the hang of it.

    My set up is thrown together. I need a nice wood stand and a loading block. Im going to get more traditional.

    This is the most relaxing shooting I have ever done.
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    Last edited by GARD72977; 10-08-2021 at 11:21 PM.

  2. #2
    So . . . breach seating, semi-fixed or fixed ammo?

    The style is one of the most relaxing, particularly if you are breach seating. Our club matches in Kalifornia were hours long with a lot of socialization going on.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for sharing, I sure would like to see some better pics of your rig, I love single shots of any type, and shot a scheutzen type ML rifle for years in offhand competition.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Excellent rifle Gard, I assume 32-40? And yes, it is relaxing. Kinda like muzzleloading and fly fishing with vintage bamboo, you are forced to slow down....and that isn't for everyone. Well done, sir!!

    I have two, Haenel/Aydt, 1st Model Schuetzen rifles I get excited about for several weeks...then they get put in the safe for a few to several months. One is 8.15 X 46R, the classic German Schuetzen cartridge and the other is 8.7 X 55R. The German Schuetzen matches didn't allow a palm rest.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Im using test tubes for powder. Im taking primed cases. I want to upgrade to a nice wood stand and traditional loading tools.

    The gun is a 32-40.

    At some point I want to buy an original Stevens Schuetzen rifle. I would like to shot a gun that was shot a century ago.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Nothing is more relaxing than a old single shot shooting fixed or breech seated. But breech seated is just a little bit better in my opinion. I take my Harrell's powder measure along, and click it up or down to see how the charge changes group. I also have the re-decapping tool Jerry Cleave built me to do almost any cartridge I might shoot, so I can shoot all day using the same single case. I take a couple spare cases, just for fun, but never need them.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I have a Harrel Benchrest powder measure. I need a decapping and capping tool.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GARD72977 View Post
    I have a Harrel Benchrest powder measure. I need a decapping and capping tool.
    You can get by pretty well using two tools. One for depriming cases, and a 2nd to re-prime cases. The Frankford Arsenal depriming tools sell for $36 on Amazon, and other places, and work exceptionally well. Plus they catch the spent primers, so easy to dispose of them. Then a Lee hand priming tool to install new primers, and you're set.
    I do like having it all in one tool, but when it comes to seating primers I've used my Lee for decades, and prefer it if I'm doing large quantities of case priming at home.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I too use a Harrell's measure at the range. Charges predetermined at home are quickly and accurately duplicated outdoors. For de-re capping I use a Jerry Simmons tool (copy of Popes?). After that all one needs is a supply of lead bullets, and a means to breech seat them.

    For experimenting outdoors with odd-to-me cartridges, I follow Vall's protocol of using a depriming tool and Lee primer seater.

  10. #10
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    AND primers and appropriate powder. Perhaps throw in wads
    beltfed/arnie

  11. #11
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnoahhh View Post
    I too use a Harrell's measure at the range. Charges predetermined at home are quickly and accurately duplicated outdoors. For de-re capping I use a Jerry Simmons tool (copy of Popes?). After that all one needs is a supply of lead bullets, and a means to breech seat them.

    For experimenting outdoors with odd-to-me cartridges, I follow Vall's protocol of using a depriming tool and Lee primer seater.
    I use a Jerry Cleave copy of his uncle Charlie Poole's tool, which was a copy of Pope's tool, like the Simmons was. It works for every cartridge I have except my .44-77SBN, which has too large a rim to use it for. I need to contact Jerry and have him build me another shell holder for it so I can do the .44-77SBN too.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by beltfed View Post
    AND primers and appropriate powder. Perhaps throw in wads
    beltfed/arnie
    What?? You use powder and primers? Isn't that dangerous?!!

    As for wads, some do some don't. I do, for containing powder within the case on the trip from powder measure to chamber. Depending on the cartridge I'll use either wads punched out of 1/8" thick heavy duty industrial grade felt, or punched out of fresh new bar coasters. (Everybody knows alcohol and gunpowder don't mix plus wads from old beer soaked coasters leaves the firing line smelling like a brewery and makes me rush my shots so as to pack it in and retire off the line for a beer.)

  13. #13
    Been shooting a Ruger number 1 in 32-40 for 25 years Course it doesn't look much like the number 1 I started with any more. Added an octagonal barrel, replaced the stock and forearm twice - last time by Gail at CPA with her high comb schuetzen. Replaced the barrel hanger, added unertle bases and scope with an attachment for peep sights, single prong german silver butt plate, wore out a lever pivot pin. Have only used 5 cases over the last quarter of a century. Totally wore out the first one but 2,3, and 4 are still serviceable although wearing a little thin. Just started using a new one. At the current rate of use, the 500 32-40 cases I have should last until the year 4521. I figure there's just short of half a ton of lead down range on this barrel equally distributed between the San Diego, Wisconsin and Texas ranges and it still looks great. I may retire it at 1000 lbs and give it to my daughter and start shooting the CPA Gail made for me. I wanted one like she has on her facebook page

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    but couldn't talk her into making me one with the false muzzle. Maybe I'll try again later and offer my firstborn child.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack View Post
    Been shooting a Ruger number 1 in 32-40 for 25 years Course it doesn't look much like the number 1 I started with any more. Added an octagonal barrel, replaced the stock and forearm twice - last time by Gail at CPA with her high comb schuetzen. Replaced the barrel hanger, added unertle bases and scope with an attachment for peep sights, single prong german silver butt plate, wore out a lever pivot pin. Have only used 5 cases over the last quarter of a century. Totally wore out the first one but 2,3, and 4 are still serviceable although wearing a little thin. Just started using a new one. At the current rate of use, the 500 32-40 cases I have should last until the year 4521. I figure there's just short of half a ton of lead down range on this barrel equally distributed between the San Diego, Wisconsin and Texas ranges and it still looks great. I may retire it at 1000 lbs and give it to my daughter and start shooting the CPA Gail made for me. I wanted one like she has on her facebook page

    Click image for larger version. 

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    but couldn't talk her into making me one with the false muzzle. Maybe I'll try again later and offer my firstborn child.
    Why wouldn't she do a false muzzle? Just curious. Always liked the target guns with the false muzzles. Sounds like an interesting #1 by the way.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hawkenhunter50 View Post
    Why wouldn't she do a false muzzle? Just curious. Always liked the target guns with the false muzzles. Sounds like an interesting #1 by the way.
    This was a number of years ago. Something to do with the difficulties inherent in matching the rifling in the false muzzle with the rifling in the barrel as I recall. I'm supposing that if CPA rifled their own barrels that she would jump on it but it seems like you might need to have an unrifled barrel, cut off a portion for the false muzzle, realign both pieces and then rifle it. I was reading that Harry Pope made gain twist rifled barrels with false muzzles and the mechanics of it just gave me a headache.

    I just picked up a 38-55 Number 1 from someone over on the ASSRA forum that's going to be the big sister to the one I have. Amazingly enough it has the same Kepplinger single set trigger that I have in the smaller gun. There was someone here or on the ASSRA forum that was making set triggers for the Ruger but I'll be darned if I can find him any longer.

    I got a quote from Gail for the full schuetzen treatment as well. She's good people! Doesn't mean that I don't drool over the one in the picture though.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnoahhh View Post
    What?? You use powder and primers? Isn't that dangerous?!!

    As for wads, some do some don't. I do, for containing powder within the case on the trip from powder measure to chamber. Depending on the cartridge I'll use either wads punched out of 1/8" thick heavy duty industrial grade felt, or punched out of fresh new bar coasters. (Everybody knows alcohol and gunpowder don't mix plus wads from old beer soaked coasters leaves the firing line smelling like a brewery and makes me rush my shots so as to pack it in and retire off the line for a beer.)
    When I do pre-charge cases at home, I still don't use anything over the mouth of the cases in the form of a wad. Too many horror stories of wads dropping down into cases and ending up on top of the powder causing chambers to be ringed, and ruining good barrels!
    I simply stand the cases base down in ammo boxes, and then I cut sheets of appropriately thick foam rubber to fit over the cases. Lay it over all the case mouths and close the lid. Then when I get to the bench I remove the foam and begin shooting.
    With smokeless powder loads I never find cases are so full that powder runs out when chambering them, so no need to chance a wad over the case mouth.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GARD72977 View Post
    I have a Harrel Benchrest powder measure. I need a decapping and capping tool.
    Gard,
    CPA sells de/recapping tools too! It's only money!!! here's the link for one that fits the 32-40
    https://www.cparifles.com/collection...39396434051169.

    Greg

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghai Jack View Post
    This was a number of years ago. Something to do with the difficulties inherent in matching the rifling in the false muzzle with the rifling in the barrel as I recall. I'm supposing that if CPA rifled their own barrels that she would jump on it but it seems like you might need to have an unrifled barrel, cut off a portion for the false muzzle, realign both pieces and then rifle it. I was reading that Harry Pope made gain twist rifled barrels with false muzzles and the mechanics of it just gave me a headache.

    I just picked up a 38-55 Number 1 from someone over on the ASSRA forum that's going to be the big sister to the one I have. Amazingly enough it has the same Kepplinger single set trigger that I have in the smaller gun. There was someone here or on the ASSRA forum that was making set triggers for the Ruger but I'll be darned if I can find him any longer.

    I got a quote from Gail for the full schuetzen treatment as well. She's good people! Doesn't mean that I don't drool over the one in the picture though.
    I always assumed that you would have drilled the indexing pin holes in the end of the barrel and then just cut off a chunk of the barrel and made that the false muzzle. With the index holes drilled that should match the rifling right up. I'm no gunsmith or rifle builder though so I'm probably wrong.

    Good luck with the 38-55, just started shooting one of those myself. Pretty promising results so far. Need to get a shotgun buttstock made for it though. It has a rifle plate and the upper point kinda hurts the shoulder shooting heavy loads. I just sent Gail an email earlier tonight to see if she can make a stock for it.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    hawken, if you do that, the rifling won't line up because of the metal removed making the cut....unless one is VERY GOOD at turning the false muzzle to align the riflening THEN drilling the holes for the pins. The false muzzle has to be cut off before rifling, then held to the muzzle during the rifling process, just as Shanghai said.
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    When I do pre-charge cases at home, I still don't use anything over the mouth of the cases in the form of a wad. Too many horror stories of wads dropping down into cases and ending up on top of the powder causing chambers to be ringed, and ruining good barrels!
    I simply stand the cases base down in ammo boxes, and then I cut sheets of appropriately thick foam rubber to fit over the cases. Lay it over all the case mouths and close the lid. Then when I get to the bench I remove the foam and begin shooting.
    With smokeless powder loads I never find cases are so full that powder runs out when chambering them, so no need to chance a wad over the case mouth.
    I hear you, Vall, but I've tried that and invariably I would get a couple stray granules that escape and get under the case and make for either sticky extraction or unsightly dents. The reason I suspect is that the ranges I shoot on have the target butts arranged slightly downhill from the bench rests. The solution would be to pick up the rifle off of the sled or bags and point it upwards while loading but that would disturb the shot-to-shot consistency of resting the rifle I strive for, not to mention being technically in violation of range rules about loaded rifles pointing up. My 1/8" felt wads are a tight fit in the case mouth, precluding dropping down onto the powder I feel. Even the beer coaster wads are pretty tight - I evidently lucked out with the punch I use. The few times I went wadless I couldn't detect any gain in accuracy anyway.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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