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Thread: 2 piece stock making

  1. #1
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    2 piece stock making

    I’m attempting a new stock for a Taurus lightning clone. Any tips ?




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  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    You might send it to a stock maker that has the pattern and have it machined in one of their copy machines.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    If you have never done one, John Taylor gave some good advice.
    First thing, I wouldn't have milled out that much of the stock. Leaving wood between the two sides of the stock would have given it a lot more strength in the grip area. All that needs to be cut out in that area is clearance for the hammer and spring.
    If you still want to do it all yourself, first thing I'd do is take the gun completely apart. If not you will fill the internals with inletting black mixed with saw dust and wood chips. Then start with inletting the upper tang and action. When you get that all spotted in and fitted, then inlet the bottom tang/triggerguard until it fits into place in the action. Last, drill the hole for the stock bolt. Easiest way to get it right is use center punches that fit the holes in the tangs perfectly, then use a center on the drill press table when you drill it. Keep in mind, the bolt hole has to be snug, because it holds the wood to the action. If it is loose, and doesn't hold the stock tight to the action, recoil can crack the stock.
    After all inletting is done, shape the outside. I cover all the metal with duct tape to keep from scratching it. When filing and sanding to final fit around the action and tangs, replace the duct tape with masking tape, then replace that with clear packing tape.
    Last edited by quack1; 10-07-2021 at 05:53 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by quack1 View Post
    If you have never done one, John Taylor gave some good advice.
    First thing, I wouldn't have milled out that much of the stock. Leaving wood between the two sides of the stock would have given it a lot more strength in the grip area. All that needs to be cut out in that area is clearance for the hammer and spring.
    If you still want to do it all yourself, first thing I'd do is take the gun completely apart. If not you will fill the internals with inletting black mixed with saw dust and wood chips. Then start with inletting the upper tang and action. When you get that all spotted in and fitted, then inlet the bottom tang/triggerguard until it fits into place in the action. Last, drill the hole for the stock bolt. Easiest way to get it right is use center punches that fit the holes in the tangs perfectly, then use a center on the drill press table when you drill it. Keep in mind, the bolt hole has to be snug, because it holds the wood to the action. If it is loose, and doesn't hold the stock tight to the action, recoil can crack the stock.
    After all inletting is done, shape the outside. I cover all the metal with duct tape to keep from scratching it. When filing and sanding to final fit around the action and tangs, replace the duct tape with masking tape, then replace that with clear packing tape.
    All excellent advice. I can add a little more (long winded) advice from an amateur who has made a few stocks with basic tools: Assuming the tangs are tapered, you have the opportunity to get a really close inletting job by spotting and walking the butt forward on to the action. If you don't get it right straight away, this may also require some shaving of the front of the butt where it meets the action, but only enough to get that last little bit of forward movement. I have actually found soft pencil to be a better spotter for this work than the proper stock marking compound - rub the pencil on to the action, fit the butt, and bump it on with a rubber mallet. Shave off the marked bits. If it all goes to pot, there is always AccraGlass, and it may not be a bad idea anyway to get a solid fit where it can't be seen.

    The next question is the buttplate. This comes AFTER you have the front end inletting finished. You need to know the stock dimensions you require - length from trigger to middle of buttplate, pitch, and perhaps cast off (or on).

    With straight tangs, the toe of the buttplate will usually be in line with the lower tang. If this will result in too much drop at the comb (e.g. old Rolling Blocks) you might go for the fish belly look to get the buttplate a bit higher. This defines the vertical position of the toe of the buttplate.

    Stock pitch is important for stock comfort. This is the angle of the buttplate to the line of sight. Zero pitch (buttplate square to line of sight) will leave you feeling that the butt is always trying to slip down off your shoulder. Examples would include the older Winchester 53 and similar. Contrast with the later 64, 65, 71 etc which are more properly pitched. Women and blocky blokes probably require more pitch than skinny types. Pitch is usually measured by placing the butt on the floor against a wall, sights facing the wall, back sight on the wall, and observe how far out from the wall the front sight is. Minimum is probably 2" or so, but I prefer about 3.5". So this determines the angle at which the stock is cut off for the buttplate. If a curved steel buttplate is to be used, e.g. Niedner, leave some extra length in the stock for both the curve of the plate and the loss of length with trial and error fitting.

    The last dimension to consider is cast. A stock is said to be "cast" when the buttplate is off the centreline. "Cast off" (buttplate to the right of centreline) is for right handers, and "cast on" (buttplate to the left) for left handers. Cast at heel and cast at toe may be different, i.e. putting the toe a little further out so it doesn't dig into the chest so much. I have been rather timid with this dimension, putting the heel over 1/8" and the toe 1/4". More may be better and, again, women and blocky blokes might appreciate more cast on the toe. Having decided the amount of cast, now draw the position of the buttplate on the blank. Mark and drill the screw holes. If fitting a curved steel buttplate, use the screws (or headless screws) to guide the fitting.

    Once the buttplate is on and finished, you can attack the lines of the stock. Drop at comb (where the face goes) is the distance from line of sight to top of stock. If it's too high you won't be able to get down comfortably to the sights. If it is too low you will miss out on facial support while shooting. Thickness of comb comes into this as well. Faces, bodies and shooting styles vary, so drop at comb might be anywhere from 1.25 to 1.625". My experience has been that it pays not to rush the stock finishing part, tempting though that may be. Use the rifle for a while before finishing the stock, and try bringing it from port to aim. Measure a few other rifles that come up well for you.

    The last point comes from Jack O'Connor on classic stock design. He quotes one of the old time stockmakers to the effect that every line of the stock should be either a straight line or a segment of a circle. The straight lines will be from buttplate to action, and from buttplate to comb. I use a spoke shave, a short plane (4.5"?) and a flat bastard file for the initial work. Laying the file lengthways finds the humps and hollows in the line. Using the file lengthways cleans them up.

    There is also the question of transitioning between shapes, in this instance from the round/oval of the stock between the tangs to the shape around the comb. This is what flutes are for (and panels for rifles like the Savage 99). I'll stop here.
    Last edited by Wilderness; 10-08-2021 at 08:53 AM.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    I'm a little surprised by all the send it off sentiment. I do appreciate the advice , but the whole point is for me to learn. I may have misled my intentions , I have the original stock. This is a purely academic endeavor. I could put the original stock on it and buy jacketed bullets or even loaded ammo, but i wont. If I were only trying to get the gun back up and running , this would be a ridiculous amount of effort for dubious results
    Milling all the way through was an error !!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Lots of good advice from everyone, but this nugget is new to me and ill be chewing on it a while !
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness View Post

    The last point comes from Jack O'Connor on classic stock design. He quotes one of the old time stockmakers to the effect that every line of the stock should be either a straight line of a segment of a circle. The straight lines will be from buttplate to action, and from buttplate to comb. I use a spoke shave, a short plane (4.5"?) and a flat bastard file for the initial work. Laying the file lengthways finds the humps and hollows in the line. Using the file lengthways cleans them up.

    .

  7. #7
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    I would have recommended a solid wood stock to learn how with. Laminates always seem to want to blow out a chunk at just the wrong time, at least for me.

    I predict you will learn to sharpen your cutting tools very well by the time you are done with this stock.

    You have a lot of excess plywood to remove, resist the urge to go fast. Once you get to within say a quarter of an inch, really take care, the temptation is to go just a little bit more with the rasp when you should be using a scraper.

    Good luck, I want to see the finished stock,

    Robert

  8. #8
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    Hey, zymguy...where did you get my toolbox! Interesting thread to read through. I have to agree that a solid piece of walnut or other hardwood would have been a better choice than laminate. After all, when you get it done, if you like it you'll have to make a matching forestock. First thing I'd do it take it to a bandsaw and get rid of much of the excess wood. It seems very thick, and you sure don't want to spend the time rasping all of that off. I see that you have the pattern drawn on the side, and that's pretty close. I always start with the stock close to finished size as possible, leaving room for final shaping, just to make it less clumsy in the inletting process. There are probably as many variations in stock making as there are stock makers. Just proceed slowly and with caution, as you can't put wood back.

    DG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Hey, zymguy...where did you get my toolbox! Interesting thread to read through. I have to agree that a solid piece of walnut or other hardwood would have been a better choice than laminate. After all, when you get it done, if you like it you'll have to make a matching forestock. First thing I'd do it take it to a bandsaw and get rid of much of the excess wood. It seems very thick, and you sure don't want to spend the time rasping all of that off. I see that you have the pattern drawn on the side, and that's pretty close. I always start with the stock close to finished size as possible, leaving room for final shaping, just to make it less clumsy in the inletting process. There are probably as many variations in stock making as there are stock makers. Just proceed slowly and with caution, as you can't put wood back.

    DG
    I got around a lot of that extra rasping. I got a power plane, and can take wood off in no time.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I'm impressed by anyone who can inlet and shape a stock from scratch. I have done several that came to me as semi-inletted and fully shaped and at times they were a bit of a struggle. Can't imagine myself not going crazy before I got to the "semi-inletted" stage if I had to do it all. Keep whittlin'. Great job so far!!

  11. #11
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    I despise carving and inletting stocks. All of the metal working of gunsmithing is an enjoyable hobby, but the wood working is a necessary choir that must be endured rather than something that's anticipated. I know that there are many others that find stock making a pleasurable pastime, and look at metal working as tedious. I suppose that the happy medium would be those that relish all aspects of gunsmithing, but those folks are on another level.

    Only two nuggets of advise here to get the OP started: First, like others have said, a piece of walnut would be a much easier learning tool than a piece of laminate. Don't toss out the laminate, because it's a learning tool too. I recommend that you attempt the stock in walnut because it has properties that make it the preferred wood for carving gunstocks. I also recommend that you attempt carving the laminate stock to see how difficult laminate is to work with, and how often it will try to ruin your day.

    Second tip: On that laminate stock, the section that you milled completely through will not show on the finished stock. If you want, you can glue (or epoxy) a block of wood into the areas of that gap that you wish to fill, and no one will ever see it after the stock is done.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Attachment 289974
    Another stock making hack: Those aluminum soft jaws on your vise aren't going to cut it. For doing stock work you'll need "extra soft" jaws. I've found that if you cut some thin scrap plywood to fit between the vise jaws, then use some rubber cement to glue scrap pieces of carpet to them, it makes a set of soft jaws that will hold a stock firmly without marring or denting it. Super cheap, super easy.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Here’s how it sits today

  14. #14
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    Looking good so far.

    Why did you inlet it so far to the left? Are you planning on putting a left handed cheek piece on the stock?

    Robert

  15. #15
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    Looking good so far.

    Why did you inlet it so far to the left? Are you planning on putting a left handed cheek piece on the stock?

    Robert
    First couple cuts into this blank were "inherited " and this is just kinda how it worked out. there is plenty of thickness even on the thin side so i didnt fight it at all. May bandsaw the thick side before i shape to center everything

  16. #16
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Little time on a clapped out Bridgeport went a long way today . This piece is not centered because I error-ed .


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  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master
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    As long as you can fix your errors so they aren't seen, there is no reason to admit to them.

    I never had access to a mill, so I never even thought about using one to inlet stocks.

    Robert

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Gonna watch with much interest; I have a premium section of Walnut crotch wood I would like to shape into a stock set for my "new to me" 1894 Favorite. Neighbor and I ran a "rube goldberg" saw mill several years ago and Walnut was our #1 tree to mill. I have a shop with lots of Walnut to use.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky45 View Post
    I have a shop with lots of Walnut to use.
    In my world your a wealthy man !

  20. #20
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    I'm far enough along to say I dont yet regret buying cheap hazard fraught chisels. I bought a nice diamond sprinkled stainless plate and a strop to sharpen with and have had to borrow a guide to start over with my 1/4 inch chisel once . I sharpen it now pretty quickly. I can in all confidence state my skill runs out before the tools ability.

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