360 DW load

[Earl54]

NEF 357 with 17 inch barrel. Lee 200gr cast,reddot,unique,2400,4227, on hand. I need a good starting load to work up to a hunting load. Ordered a 357 maximum reamer,but I need a load soon for hunting in the mean time. 200gr lee +6gr unique, in DW case fits and shoots well. ( need load for DW case's)

[megasupermagnum]

The Lyman manual has the data for 4227. That was the best powder I used in 357 maximum.

[P Flados]

You did not say if your gun is a SB1 or a SB2 frame, you did not say if you will use powdercoat, you did not say with or without checks and you did not list your planned OAL.

Your chamber may allow seating longer than typical, or it may take 360 Brass but require deeper seating of some bullets.

If you gun is a SB2, the frame can handle the 270 Winchester rated at 65,000 psi. Anything over say 50,000 psi deserves thick cup primers. The info below is based on a SB2 gun. Some folks push the Max to above SAAMI ratings even in a SB1, but I prefer to not go there.

With the DW you really do not loose much over the maximum. The reason both of these rounds do so much better than the typical 357 magnum is how they are loaded. Although the 357 Max SAAMI rating (according to Quickload) has 40,000 psi rating, the SB1 rifle is probably the only gun used for the Max that is not good for closer to 55,000 psi.

I will do some Quickload comparison runs for you. Quickload is not the same as real test data, so you will need to work up any loads carefully. With a SB2 gun, the pressure limit is high enough to tolerate flattened primers without damaging the gun. For now I will start out with limiting pressure to 55,000 psi. Also note that seating depth makes a big difference. If you seat deeper than the inputs, this will increase the fill % (load density) which in turn drives pressures up a lot.

DW 360 with a seating depth of 0.534", Quickload says

8.78 gr Unique gives a 93% fill and 1475 fps at 55,000 psi.
14 gr 2400 gives a 100% fill and 1715 fps at 51,500 psi. I backed off a little as I am not as confident with compressed projections.

357 Max with a seating depth of 0.534", Quickload says

10.4 gr Unique gives a 87% fill and 1564 fps at 55,000 psi.
16.79 gr 2400 gives a 95.6% fill and 1858 fps at 55,000 psi.

I also ran 4227 for the DW360, but velocity was lower than the Unique load.

I shoot a lot of 357 Max from a number of different guns. You will need to find a load that does not flatten primers and that shoots accurately. The accurate load may be well below the max load. Even with a 360 DW case, a 200 gr Lee going 1700 fps or so from a 17" gun is not shabby at all and really should be good enough out to any reasonable distance.

If you achieve adequate shot placement, there will be a nice exit wound for just about anything we shoot in the lower 48. Starting out with an extra 200 fps will not make that much difference. More speed can reduce bullet drop, but with either cartridge, you need to figure out actual drops with your sight settings.

[P Flados]

I went looking for info on how to tell SB1 from SB2 and did not find what I was looking for.

I did find info that indicated that most 357 mag and 44 mag guns they sold were SB1. People were buying SB1 357 mag guns to get the barrel and then swapping the barrel onto SB2 frames to get a high pressure capable gun.

The 2000 Alliant reloading guide did have pressure tested 357 Max load data (using cup). They limited pressures to the same limit they used for 357 mag. They showed a max of 14.1 gr 2400 under a 200 gr Speer FMJ and a COL of 1.975.

In the DW360 case, Quickload says dropping down to 13.4 gr under a 200 gr lee seated to 1.80" OAL will get about the same pressure as the Alliant 357 Max load. Velocity should be around 1600 fps.

[megasupermagnum]

He says it is the Lee 200gr, so clearly he is using a gas check. Whether or not he lubes or powder coats makes no difference. I wouldn't hotrod the 357 DW like that, there's no proven load data I'm aware of. I own Quickloads, and the more I use it, the more I think it is complete garbage. It's acceptable for bottleneck rifles. Give me 2-3 manuals, and I can give you more accurate load data on loads that aren't even published, than Quickloads can in straight wall cases. 4227 produces higher velocity than Unique, that just proves how poor Quickloads is. Even from a revolver, 4227 is quite a bit faster than Unique, and I imagine a rifle even more.

[cwlongshot]

The SB1 is the WEAKER CAST receiver and Definitely NOT AS SAFE TO HOT ROD!!

The SB2 was what all the CF rifle calibers received.

NO you can not go by barrel markings.

The way to tell is to remove butt stocks. The SB 2 is a solid piece when the SB1 will sho cast and webbed.

Go to GBO and read the FAQ's.

CW

[P Flados]

With the prod, I found what I was looking for. The old stuff from GBO is now at GBO Reloaded.

Although CW was correct (enough) as to the location of the information, he probably mis-remembered the details. Here is a quote from quickdtoo (the guru):

"the SB1 frame is solid at the stock mating surface while the SB2 is skeletonized"

https://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/i...html#msg498556

And in reply to the other recent post, I have shot lots of the Lee 200s and never used a gas check. They worked fine that way. Check or no check does affect how far out a bullet can be seated while being firmly held in place.

I also will say that whenever possible I use Quickload in combination with published data. I have found it to be a very useful tool when I start out by loading the parameters from a published load and then seeing how the results change as an individual parameter is "tweaked".

[megasupermagnum]

I'm not going to say all of them are this way, but between half a dozen H&R and NEF's, they all say SB1 or SB2 stamped right on the side of them. Also, there are centerfire rifle barrels on SB1 frames. I'm fairly sure all the pistol cartridges were. Some of the bigger rounds like 45-70 could be SB1. I'm almost positive I once saw a SB1 30-30 Winchester.

[cwlongshot]

Well hell. Yup Im backwards on discription. I cannot post pics and went by memory.

Solid is USUALLY SB1 but they are still the weaker and cast. Only SB1 CF was the 357/44 mags. The 22 Hornets and 45/70's was PRE SB designations and NOT SAME. H&R further muddied things with the ULTRA slugger series as these wasnt SB1 but not really SB2 either!!
Anyhow Bottom line SB2 is what you want if your gonna "push things" these was used on CF rifles pushing 60k with a .473 case head.
I have never liked these in H&Rs and always subscribed to rimmed cases was best. This means 40-45k pressures. The guns live longer and usually shoot better consistently.

The DW was a case many found fit factory mag chambers. But your still running a risk unless you make a chamber cast and KNOW there is proper room. Best bet is to ream to Maxi. Takes 15-20 minutes of careful, oil, turn, clean & repeat. I have done near a dozen.

CW
Line

[MT Gianni]

P Flados, have you ever run Quickload for the Max with 300 MP powder?

[rockrat]

Aren't the firing pins smaller on the SB2 frame vs the SB1?

[cwlongshot]

Yes and no.

Shotgun SB1's probably larger, yes. But 357/44 SB1's no same as rifles.


CW

[P Flados]

P Flados, have you ever run Quickload for the Max with 300 MP powder?

I would if it was in the database (it is not).

Alliant has minimal load data and without a database entry in Quickload, for now 300 MP is "probably great, but we may never know".

The above kept me for buying some when I really wanted to. I ended up finding some surplus WC 680 at that has a just slower burn rate.

[cwlongshot]

Thats been a long standing argument with this powder!!! There is 357 Mag lods so a prudent experienced re loader can establish a safe loading.

I am now using it in my 300bo Bolt gun with Hornady 135 FTX. I have passed 2200 fps with under moa accuracy. But its probably a lil hot for a MSR. FINE IN MY BOLT RUGER.

CW

[Earl54]

Thank you all for the information, was out of town a few days. Read this site for quite a few years before I joined, love the helpful attitude from the members. Further information - frame is SB2, gas checks, lube, seat to the crimp groove. Mainly shoot small pigs, less than 150 lbs, and small deer 120ish pounds. My chamber is .127 from accepting a 357 max case, 1.925 oal on 180gr jword loads,not touching the lands in DW cases.Game for me is small meat hogs and deer, both mostly around 150 pounds or less. Tree stand hunting on the banks of the Suwannee River, and very thick brush(6 to 10 foot tall pin oaks) around Cedar Key,Fl. Ranges 0 to 20 feet in the Pin Oaks, and 0 to 70-80 yards on the river.My barrel came on an SB1 action,it fit my SB2 so that is its home. Had another 357 that I reamed to 357 max but now it belongs to who ever stole it. I am building up a 17 inch, 56/50 cast bullet gun with peep sites, I like big cast bullets. Next after the 56/50 will be a peep site, 577 snider, both to go on the same SB2 frame

[P Flados]

The SB-2 frame makes your load workup a lot less worrisome.

Based on Quickload & my experience with both Mag and the Max you should be able to get to 100% load density with 2400 and still have lots of margin on primers. A little compression should also be okay, but after getting to 100% load density powder increases should be small steps.

The gun with DW brass will be more than enough for the hunting you describe.

[Earl54]

Thanks for your time and information - Danny

[Earl54]

A moderate charge of 2400, and a 200gr lee went right center chest to left rear ham with an exit. 100lb pig(field dressed), me sitting on a stump, range 10 long paces.Thanks to ya'll for the information. Am ordering an Accurate 36-200B for the nice flat point, looks like it should work well at my sort of hunting.

[OBXPilgrim]

For a fun plinking load, I used a 9mm 147 boolit with 4.0 gr of Unique that would hit the same POI as my 200gr 2400 load at 50 yards.