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Thread: Question for Benchrest Shooters

  1. #1
    Boolit Master PBSmith's Avatar
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    Question for Benchrest Shooters

    You've seen the portable shooting rests, most of which could never be as stable as a conventional, earth or earth/cement anchored bench. They might be good enough for sighting-in a hunting rifle, but how about serious group shooting with a heavy varmint rifle?

    Some of the portable jobs, including home-made ones, will allow the shooter to acquire a steady hold on the target. But what happens after ignition might be another story. The portable benches might shake, rattle and roll.

    Does that post-igntion shake matter? Or is the bullet long gone from the barrel before shaking gets underway?

    Put another way, say you have a rifle capable of 1/4 MOA. Is anything shy of a traditional. massive, well-anchored bench going to allow you to shoot those 1/4" groups?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSmith View Post
    You've seen the portable shooting rests, most of which could never be as stable as a conventional, earth or earth/cement anchored bench. They might be good enough for sighting-in a hunting rifle, but how about serious group shooting with a heavy varmint rifle?

    Some of the portable jobs, including home-made ones, will allow the shooter to acquire a steady hold on the target. But what happens after ignition might be another story. The portable benches might shake, rattle and roll.

    Does that post-igntion shake matter? Or is the bullet long gone from the barrel before shaking gets underway?

    Put another way, say you have a rifle capable of 1/4 MOA. Is anything shy of a traditional. massive, well-anchored bench going to allow you to shoot those 1/4" groups?
    Might as well just anchor the blooding rifle to the ground....but I agree, most look pretty shady to me!!

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    If you can get steady enough to hold sub moa on the target, the bullet will be gone before the vibrations of the bench will have any effect on things.
    The bullet will be gone before anything happens enough to change point of impact.

  4. #4
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    If the rifle isn't clamped down like the test barrels are for ballistics research at the ammo factories,
    it'll jump around with recoil no matter what you rest it on/in.
    However; the bullet is out & gone before it has a chance to move.

    I'd think barrel whip or harmonics would have a bigger influence on group size than the rest on the bench.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    With your average varmint rifle, muzzle velocities are over 3000fps. Even with 24 inch barrels, the bullet is gone in about 1/1000th of a second or so.
    Not enough time for anything to happen as far as table shake.
    As Winger said, recoil will be the biggest factor. That happens no matter the table you use.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBSmith View Post
    You've seen the portable shooting rests, most of which could never be as stable as a conventional, earth or earth/cement anchored bench. They might be good enough for sighting-in a hunting rifle, but how about serious group shooting with a heavy varmint rifle?

    Some of the portable jobs, including home-made ones, will allow the shooter to acquire a steady hold on the target. But what happens after ignition might be another story. The portable benches might shake, rattle and roll.

    Does that post-igntion shake matter? Or is the bullet long gone from the barrel before shaking gets underway?

    Put another way, say you have a rifle capable of 1/4 MOA. Is anything shy of a traditional. massive, well-anchored bench going to allow you to shoot those 1/4" groups?
    That is a highly subjective question. Too many variables to give a one size fits all answer. From personal experience I can still shoot 1/2" MOA to 5/8" MOA with most portable benches. With the same setup the rifles are 1/4" MOA or better guns off a good bench.

    As soon as the bullet starts moving the firearm and bench start receiving the equal and opposite reaction to that movement. If everything is 100% consistent groups will not be effected. When you are dealing with less than ideal conditions consistency tends to be fleeting.

    Too many variables to predict how much of an effect this with have but any inconsistency will have an effect.

    In Bench Rest and F-Class the effects of inconsistent front and rear bag friction is well understood. Recently a friend was expected/expecting to win a National title but he had a disastrous outing due to nothing more than a cleaning solvent contamination on the front bag.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 10-07-2021 at 12:49 AM.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I once had a "solid as a rock" shooting bench on my private one lane range. I believe it's major advantage is/was its total lack of reaction to my pulse.

    Gun movement from firing or barrel vibrations aside, nothing can stop the tiny crosswire bounces coming from every heartbeat when leaning on any rational portable shooting bench.

  8. #8
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    A few years back I "discovered" a product made by a dentist in Watertown, South Dakota. Not the least expensive pup in the kennel, it's "1st look" high price is more than off-set, imho, both in the extreme high precision with which it is made as well as the VERY BEST non-movement of whatever you rest on it to shoot.
    The purveyor/inventer/designer/builder -- named Wally Brownlee -- has a web-site at https://targetshooting.com/about-tsi/ .
    I have the Model 1000LP with a few accessories: Foot pads, recoil pads, dual rail gunstops, and front counter-weight -- plus the magnum lock knob.
    But a few years back I put an M1 Garand (A McKee (Fulton) rebuild in mine, at 100 yard range, to get a group which was covered with a Styrofoam coffee cup! The rest held the rifle "better" than the rifle would have been expected to perform. Also, using Eley .22 Match ammo, I once got a 1.58" group using a CZ457 Varmint .22!Click image for larger version. 

Name:	TSC 1000LP Rest.JPG 
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    If I were into "benchrest" -- I'd surely look at this.
    BEST!
    geo

  9. #9
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    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    A few years back I "discovered" a product made by a dentist in Watertown, South Dakota. Not the least expensive pup in the kennel, it's "1st look" high price is more than off-set, imho, both in the extreme high precision with which it is made as well as the VERY BEST non-movement of whatever you rest on it to shoot.
    The purveyor/inventer/designer/builder -- named Wally Brownlee -- has a web-site at https://targetshooting.com/about-tsi/ .
    I have the Model 1000LP with a few accessories: Foot pads, recoil pads, dual rail gunstops, and front counter-weight -- plus the magnum lock knob.
    But a few years back I put an M1 Garand (A McKee (Fulton) rebuild in mine, at 100 yard range, to get a group which was covered with a Styrofoam coffee cup! The rest held the rifle "better" than the rifle would have been expected to perform. Also, using Eley .22 Match ammo, I once got a 1.58" group using a CZ457 Varmint .22!Click image for larger version. 

Name:	TSC 1000LP Rest.JPG 
Views:	18 
Size:	68.1 KB 
ID:	289864
    If I were into "benchrest" -- I'd surely look at this.
    BEST!
    geo
    How much do they normally cost?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    .........
    As soon as the bullet starts moving the firearm and bench start receiving the equal and opposite reaction to that movement. If everything is 100% consistent groups will not be effected. When you are dealing with less than ideal conditions consistency tends to be fleeting.

    Too many variables to predict how much of an effect this with have but any inconsistency will have an effect........
    M-Tecs is correct.

    It is the probable greater inconsistency in the hold of the rifle on the portable bench [the flimsier the bench, the less consistent the hold] which in turn reduces the shooters ability to shoot as well. It's why loads should be tested from a solid benchrest and why solid benchrests are used in benchrest matches. It's also why a consistent hold and consistent position are important to best accuracy in all shooting endeavors.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  11. #11
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    One hole is correct heartbeat and bad bag holds cause more failure to group than most things.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    How much do they normally cost?
    The prices are on web-site... I have about one thousand U S dollars in my set-up. Sounded like a lot of $$$ for a rest -- but the repeated shooting results; and, the highest quality which would guarantee its life being longer than perhaps ANY owner/shooter... seemed like a smart purchase! Yes -- one can purchase rests for $59USD or so... and, Scopes in that same price range . But -- scopes in the $2,500.00 USD are also made and sold, too! It boils down to one's "shooting priorities".
    Again, I have had ZERO regrets with my purchase, and -- through the years -- have come up with but one "mod". (To wit, I bored holes in a couple of pieces of wood, to which I screwed roller-wheels to "drop" the rests front legs into to make loading/unloading into my ARE-capped Tacoma pick-up soooo much easier)
    geo

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check