Non Ethanol Gas Is Cheaper Than Ethanol Blend

[Winger Ed.]

Attachment 289915Attachment 289916

Well, they do ask how they can save you money......

That might have been another customer's suggestion.

[popper]

Used to use leaded gas, then the mtbe(or whatever) that was added until it became public that the mtbe contaminated ground water. they decided ethanol was more eco friendly. Yes ethanol is more expensive to make. And the gas storage places add it to the truck on the way OUT of the terminal.

[GasGuzzler]

I burn 91/93 in both my GMC's due to tuning and I don't care if it has ethanol or not as long as it's less than 10%. I also don't pay much attention to the price...I can't. Most times I buy from the local supplier across from work as they are local, 100% gas, and usually cheaper for 91 than most other stations in the County. The down side is no pay at the pump and 7-5 Monday through Friday like a real business should be. Have to plan ahead to get gas.

Bought some 91 octane 15% ethanol from the Gulf station and it caused pinging and timing retard. All the other stations are owned by foreigners or conglomerates hence the planning ahead for "family" gas.

[Gator 45/70]

Fuel taxes by state, Keep in mind it is not showing Fedzilla's added tax.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...taxes-by-state

[jonp]

Here is the pump price



I did the gas/water test. First is to get a water bottle and make 2 marks then fill with water to the bottom



Added non ethanol gas to the top and shook it up. Ethanol binds with water so if there is ethanol in the gas it will go to the water and the gasoline will float to the top



After sitting the marks stayed the same so it's non ethanol as the water level did not change.

[megasupermagnum]

I stopped in Herman, MN today for gas. They had the usual 87 octane with 10% ethanol, and 91 octane non-oxygenated. I looked all over the pump, there is no sticker on it at all. Like I said, I've been buying gas in MN for a long time, and if you aren't supposed to use non-oxygenated gas in your car, nobody in my entire life ever said so, and the pumps don't give the slightest indication of it either. I've never seen one with a sticker like posted earlier, but even that is small print and vague. BTW, prices were $3.09 for the 87 octane, and $3.60 for the 91 octane.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I stopped in Herman, MN today for gas. They had the usual 87 octane with 10% ethanol, and 91 octane non-oxygenated. I looked all over the pump, there is no sticker on it at all. Like I said, I've been buying gas in MN for a long time, and if you aren't supposed to use non-oxygenated gas in your car, nobody in my entire life ever said so, and the pumps don't give the slightest indication of it either. I've never seen one with a sticker like posted earlier, but even that is small print and vague. BTW, prices were $3.09 for the 87 octane, and $3.60 for the 91 octane.

I don't doubt what you are saying, but I hope you don't doubt what I previously said.

Subd. 12.Exemption for collector vehicle and off-road use. (a) A person responsible for the product may offer for sale, sell, or dispense at a retail gasoline station for use in collector vehicles or vehicles eligible to be licensed as collector vehicles, off-road vehicles, motorcycles, boats, snowmobiles, or small engines, gasoline that is not oxygenated in accordance with subdivision 1 if the person meets the conditions in paragraphs (b) to (d). If the nonoxygenated gasoline is for use in a small engine, it must be dispensed into a can with a capacity of six or fewer gallons.
(b) The nonoxygenated gasoline must be unleaded premium grade as defined in section 239.751, subdivision 4.

(c) No more than one storage tank on the premises of the retail gasoline station may be used for storage of the nonoxygenated gasoline offered for sale, sold, or dispensed by the station.

(d) The pump stands must be posted with a permanent notice stating: "NONOXYGENATED GASOLINE. FOR USE IN COLLECTOR VEHICLES OR VEHICLES ELIGIBLE TO BE LICENSED AS COLLECTOR VEHICLES, OFF-ROAD VEHICLES, MOTORCYCLES, BOATS, SNOWMOBILES, OR SMALL ENGINES ONLY."

This notice must be posted at least two feet above the ground. A retail gasoline station that sells nonoxygenated premium gasoline as defined in section 239.791, subdivision 15, must register every two years with the director, or an entity appointed by the director, on forms approved by the director, the total amount of nonoxygenated premium gasoline sold annually.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/...NES%20ONLY.%22

[10x]

gasoline without ethanol gives better gas mileage.
Alcohol does not have the BTU value that gasoline has and I have noticed that 10% ethanol results in a 15% reduction in mileage.
Keep track of the cost per mile traveled.

[RogerDat]

gasoline without ethanol gives better gas mileage.
Alcohol does not have the BTU value that gasoline has and I have noticed that 10% ethanol results in a 15% reduction in mileage.
Keep track of the cost per mile traveled.

Exactly true by my experience also. There is just less energy in ethanol than gasoline. E85 is reported to yield a highway mpg about the same as city mpg would be for the same vehicle on gasoline. So say your have 24 hwy / 16 city then you would be looking at 16 mpg highway running E85. Rough rule of thumb.

Ironic part is that IF one locates feed lots for livestock close to ethanol plants and ethanol plants close to grain production one can not lose any "food" value of the grain. Post ethanol production the corn is still good for livestock feed, even better than normal due to being partly broken down and easier to digest. At one time revenue agents would look for unusually plump livestock to spot moonshiners. Steady diet of left over grain mash leads to fat livestock.

The problem is it requires a close integration to co-locate the grain production, ethanol production, and livestock feed lots. Otherwise moving the leftover mash which is wet and heavy uses a lot of fuel. Or if dried for transport the drying uses lots of energy. However if close enough to each other one can efficiently produce ethanol for fuel and feed livestock from the same corn. Locate where corn is produced to avoid transportation costs of the raw materials..... works out to be more profitable.

There is also a bacteria discovered in the pacific during WW2 that is very efficient at turning anything organic into starches and sugars. It was "discovered" when American GI's found their tents and clothes were rotting in weeks instead of months they were expected to last. Canadian company produces it for making distressed jeans, you know the brand new jeans that look like they are almost worn out. That can use just about anything organic to create alcohol. Wheat stubble is one item. Cannabis waste might be another source. That stuff grows like a weed, without irrigation or fertilizer.

Don't expect ethanol subsidies to get dialed back as long as Iowa is the first state in the primaries. We will be having subsidies on ethanol when 85% of all vehicles are electric or run on fusion like the DeLorean in Back to the Future. No presidential candidate will support rolling back subsidies that help farm incomes in at least 3 or 4 states including the first one to nominate a candidate. Google gutless punks and don't be surprised if you get a list of a whole lot of politicians form both parties.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't doubt you at all JonB. What I'm trying to say is that MN has not made this obvious at all. If it were not for this thread, I could have lived my entire life without ever knowing it. The majority of gas stations do not have any notice posted anywhere on the pump, at least I've never seen one.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I think those "Pump postings", get more and more prevalent, the closer you get to the Twin Cities

[Gator 45/70]

Reckon I'll be doing recreational stuff for awhile, 2.39.9 here

[jonp]

Unleaded jumped to $3.19. The ethanol free is still $2.99

[fastdadio]

Unleaded jumped to $3.19. The ethanol free is still $2.99

If that was the case around here, I'd be running it.

[jonp]

If that was the case around here, I'd be running it.

I just filled up my gas cans and 2 vehicles before it had a chance to rise too

[jonp]

Gas now $3.29 but the ethanol free is holding firm at $2.99

[perotter]

gasoline without ethanol gives better gas mileage.
Alcohol does not have the BTU value that gasoline has and I have noticed that 10% ethanol results in a 15% reduction in mileage.
Keep track of the cost per mile traveled.

The BTU value would only directly apply to an old timey steam engine and not the ic engine we use. If you took the time to study the matter(read some SAE reports) you'd find out that in ice's BTE is what matters and alcohol will have a better BTE than normal gasoline’s in ic engines.

[fastdadio]

The BTU value would only directly apply to an old timey steam engine and not the ic engine we use. If you took the time to study the matter(read some SAE reports) you'd find out that in ice's BTE is what matters and alcohol will have a better BTE than normal gasoline’s in ic engines.

What's a BTE?

[rking22]

If that is the case, why do I consistently see a 10% reduction in mpg when I use 10% alcohol gas vs pure gas in my vehicles?? Actual measurements, I’m an engineer, only interested in the real data.

[fastdadio]

If that is the case, why do I consistently see a 10% reduction in mpg when I use 10% alcohol gas vs pure gas in my vehicles?? Actual measurements, I’m an engineer, only interested in the real data.

Because he's wrong. Gasoline = 120,286 btu/gal. Ethanol = 76,100 btu/gal. Being an engineer, which one of these fuels will do the most work? Or, 3.412142 btu's per watt/hour for another way of looking at the energy value. Either way you look at it, there's no free lunch here.