Boolit sizing necessary ?

[cuslog]

Relatively new to this game.
Had a conversation with a fellow more experienced than me at BPCR (black powder cartridge rifle). He was telling me that many in that game do not size their bullets. In other words; they shoot them "as cast" and the barrel sizes them. Pan lubed.
How many do it this way?
Comments?
TIA

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

BPCR for competition is a whole nuther game.

For 99% of us boolit casters and especially for Newbie boolit casters, you should size the boolits before loading your ammo, this is done mostly for uniformity and you are a lot less likely to have problems with your boolits seating/crimping as well as you finished ammo chambering in your gun, and will likely have better accuracy as launch pressures should be more consistent, round to round.
Good Luck.

[Green Frog]

You may be approaching this question from the wrong direction. Perhaps more properly you are asking, “Are there moulds cut precisely enough that the bullets they produce can be lubed and shot as cast?” The answer to this is an unequivocal “Yes.” In the Schuetzen game (ASSRA) and BPCS this is pretty much SOP. the Schuetzen crowd often use tapered bullets which cannot be practically sized.

I haven’t sized a Schuetzen bullet in twenty years or more, and during my brief foray into BPCS also shot my bullets primarily as cast. OTOH, most if not all of my pistol and revolver bullets make a trip through the Lubri-sizer before they are loaded.

Froggie

[OutHuntn84]

Yes, no, maybe, sometimes lol. There's a lot of variables to consider:
Have you confirmed your cast diameter is as expected and acceptable for your load?
Do you have a plan to tumble lube, pan lube or powder coat it?
If your answer is yes then you are probably good to go without sizing.
If no to either of these you will probably need to size it first.
Also bullets that use gas checks are usually installed during sizing.

[JoeJames]

Preface: I normally only shoot pistol cartridges developed before 1908. 32S&W Long, 38 Special, and 44 Special. And I have simple needs; so I have been primarily casting Lee Micro Lube grooved swc's in those calibers with COWW type alloys. And I have been tumble lubing them all with a 50-50 mix of Lee Liquid Alox and mineral spirits. They have all proved to be more than adequately accurate with no leading. Of course I have not done any hot-rodding either. My velocities run between 700 fps with the 32S&W Long to a high of 894 fps with the 44 Special Lee 430-240 grain. I have never considered there to be need to size them. Maybe I am operating on the cheap, but it works for me. Pictures of the Lee 314 98 grain, and Lee 430-240 grain.

[Dan Cash]

If you have a mould that drops a bullet to the right dimensions and is precise enough to make round bullets, sizing is not necessary. I, personally only size 2 calibers for which I cast, a .32 and ,357. The .32 bullet is for a .32-20 and works fine in my Colt but is too large for a Uberti clone so it gets sized for that revolver and for use in a .30-30 rifle. I also cast a 200 grain .360 bullet for .35 Rem but size the same bullet to .357 for various revolvers. If the bullet comes from the mould the right size, don't waste time and effort sizing.

[GregLaROCHE]

If you have a mold that casts boolits the correct size for your gun and you do your part when casting them, you don’t need to size. Know the size of your bore. If you have a mold that drops bigger boolits you can size them down.

[gwpercle]

Relatively new to this game.
Had a conversation with a fellow more experienced than me at BPCR (black powder cartridge rifle). He was telling me that many in that game do not size their bullets. In other words; they shoot them "as cast" and the barrel sizes them. Pan lubed.
How many do it this way?
Comments?
TIA

Reloading and shooting modern smokeless ammunition , repeating rifle and handguns is done totally different than is reloading and shooting single shot black powder rifles .

To which reloading and shooting are you asking ...
modern smokeless or single shot black powder cartridge ...
There is a big difference ... which game are we playing ?
Gary

[JoeJames]

If you have a mould that drops a bullet to the right dimensions and is precise enough to make round bullets, sizing is not necessary. I, personally only size 2 calibers for which I cast, a .32 and ,357. The .32 bullet is for a .32-20 and works fine in my Colt but is too large for a Uberti clone so it gets sized for that revolver and for use in a .30-30 rifle. I also cast a 200 grain .360 bullet for .35 Rem but size the same bullet to .357 for various revolvers. If the bullet comes from the mould the right size, don't waste time and effort sizing.

That is very intriguing. I traded for a 38 S&W Victory Model. I tried it with bevel base Speer .358 158 grain swaged swc's. They were quite accurate, but due to dwell time, they shot about 3" low at 15 yards. I assume the old Victory was regulated for a .361 200 grain bullet. I have been looking to check my theory out before I went ahead and ordered some 200 grain from Matt's Bullets.

[cuslog]

Reloading and shooting modern smokeless ammunition , repeating rifle and handguns is done totally different than is reloading and shooting single shot black powder fifles .

To which reloading and shooting are you asking ...
modern smokeless or single shot black powder cartridge ...
There is a big difference ... which game are we playing ?
Gary

Going to give Schuetzen a try, so it will be with smokeless. They tell me (if I want to be competitive) that I'll need to breech seat as well.
I've seen Schuetzen targets hanging on walls, 10 shots @ 200 yards, all inside 1 1/2" or about 3/4 moa (bench) - cast lead boolits. Seems to me that everything's got to be pretty much perfect to do that ! And being that its 10 shots, that ain't no fluke !
I'm expecting a long learning curve.

[bangerjim]

I size EVERYTHING...................to the right bore size I need.

Just do it.

It removes one more "unknown factor" of getting to where you want to be.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Relatively new to this game.
Had a conversation with a fellow more experienced than me at BPCR (black powder cartridge rifle). He was telling me that many in that game do not size their bullets. In other words; they shoot them "as cast" and the barrel sizes them. Pan lubed.
How many do it this way?
Comments?
TIA

Going to give Schuetzen a try, so it will be with smokeless. They tell me (if I want to be competitive) that I'll need to breech seat as well.
I've seen Schuetzen targets hanging on walls, 10 shots @ 200 yards, all inside 1 1/2" or about 3/4 moa (bench) - cast lead boolits. Seems to me that everything's got to be pretty much perfect to do that ! And being that its 10 shots, that ain't no fluke !
I'm expecting a long learning curve.

OK, I misunderstood your first post. I assumed you are a newbie to casting. Can I assume you aren't new to casting? If you are gonna be casting for Schuetzen, you probably need some dandy casting skills and probably a custom mold to match your rifle. Other than that, I can't really offer much info and kind of wish I never even posted in this thread.

[cuslog]

I do have some previous experience but don't consider myself an expert. Chatting with a couple
of the Schuetzen guys (and looking at their bullets and targets) it became obvious that they were indeed "experts". There's a group that meets about once a month, about a 90 min. drive from me. I had just neglected to ask them if they were sizing their bullets or shooting them "as cast" and thought I'd ask here.

[ACC]

Relatively new to this game.
Had a conversation with a fellow more experienced than me at BPCR (black powder cartridge rifle). He was telling me that many in that game do not size their bullets. In other words; they shoot them "as cast" and the barrel sizes them. Pan lubed.
How many do it this way?
Comments?
TIA

I size all 9mm and .357 bullets. But I haven't sized any for my .40 S&W with excellent accuracy. I think it depends on the gun, bullet, and lube type more than anything.

ACC

[mdi]

Know your gun and bullets/molds. If you know what diameter your gun works best at, and your mold/methods produce bullets of that size, perhaps you don't need to size. But like Bangerjim, I size all my cast. I slug every gun I get, determine what works best, and for uniformity, size them. Thats how I started and that's method. Works for me...

[oso]

Interesting thread. If you care what I do: I use a just oversize die to lube my boolits without sizing them. Why risk damaging my excellent boolits! If the sizing die kisses one of my casts that one is a reject or a second at best. Call it quality control. As has been said: "Be Most Excellent."

[cuslog]

Interesting thread. If you care what I do: I use a just oversize die to lube my boolits without sizing them. Why risk damaging my excellent boolits! If the sizing die kisses one of my casts that one is a reject or a second at best. Call it quality control. As has been said: "Be Most Excellent."

I have had thoughts about doing the same. I have been pan lubing but I'm finding it kind of messy.

[gwpercle]

Going to give Schuetzen a try, so it will be with smokeless. They tell me (if I want to be competitive) that I'll need to breech seat as well.
I've seen Schuetzen targets hanging on walls, 10 shots @ 200 yards, all inside 1 1/2" or about 3/4 moa (bench) - cast lead boolits. Seems to me that everything's got to be pretty much perfect to do that ! And being that its 10 shots, that ain't no fluke !
I'm expecting a long learning curve.

I know nothing about the Schuetzen game ...but others here will .

I was just reading an article in Handloader Magazine #334 Oct/21 on "Black Powder Cartridge Target Bullets" in regards to Creedmoor Target and NRA BPCR Silhouette shooting and here is what was written on sizing ... " Some great shooters do size in regular sizer/lube machines . Other's say No; if your mould is good enough , it's not necessary. Those folks Pan Lube their bullets . I've tried both but ended up right on the fence . For the sake of convience I've settled on the lube/sizer machine method but using a die .001" over bullet diameter ."
Reading between Mike's lines ... if you can have made a mould that perfectly cast the boolit diameter with the alloy you use ...easier said than done... then you don't have to size them .
Using a die .001" over the as cast boolit size just allows you to lubricate it and maybe round the bullet up ... I'm like mike ... I hate pan lubing .

The best thing I ever bought , reloading wise , was a Lyman 450 lube/sizer .
Being able to size boolits is one of the most useful things a cast boolit shooter can have and just using them to lube is so nice , clean and easy !

Start saving your spare change ... at some point in time you will want to size and lubricate boolits .
Gary

[slug]

Several decades back, Al Miller, was testing the effects of sizing in a half dozen rifles.
Reporting in Handloader magazine, he found that in all cases, he got the best accuracy with the least, (or no) sizing.
The lead bullet would squeeze down to fit the bore.

Sixty or seventy years back, Lyman's mantra was to cast an oversize bullet, and size them to the appropriate diameter.
Back then, their dies had a step that performed the sizing, not the smooth taper we see today. This led to a lot of off centred sized bullets.
When they went to the tapered sizing dies, they put the rubber ring around the top to act as a seal.
If you come across a Lyman sizing die without the rubber ring, it belongs in a museum, not on your loading bench.

[John Boy]

Gents … the word is bullet, Boolits …
Infrequent resizing bullets … order a mold fit for the grooves of the rifle if possible from the vendor. Otherwise, order your molds from Accurate Molds