Newbie BP reloader needs advice on vintage Winchester 45-60

[BillKilgore]

Hello all.

I have been reloading modern cartridges for a while, but I am about to step into the world of black powder reloading. I have an original (1883) Winchester model 1876 in .45-60. It is in great mechanical shape and has been fired only once in my 60ish year life. I got the bright idea of bringing this family heirloom back to life by reloading a some soft-firing cartridges. I have a few boxes of vintage ammunition, but do not want to pop them off due to their high collector value. They are loaded with black powder and 300 gr lead flat-tip bullets.

I bought five pounds of Goex 2F black powder since the factory is closing. I plan to buy some 250-300 gr cast boolits or perhaps cast my own. I am also watching the Starline site for new 45-70 brass. A set of RCBS .45-60 dies are in-bound.

I would like to ask the experts here to point me towards any good BP reading info that would be applicable to my situation. Much of the info I find online is for reproduction firearms firing smokeless loads. Any advice for a new BP reloader is also appreciated. It looks like I have some time to kill while I hunt for components.

Thanks in advance.

[beshears]

Trim cases to length. Figure out seating depth of bullet. Use enough powder to fill to the bottom of bullet. Add wad on top of powder and compress enough to seat bullet to the depth you want. Good shooting.

[beshears]

Be sure to wash the cases after firing or they will corrode. I deprime and drop in jug with water and dishwash soap.

[BillKilgore]

Thanks, beshears. I will make sure to clean the brass soon after firing. What makes a good wadding material?

[GregLaROCHE]

There are a lot of books out there that have good information on black powder. «Black Powder Handbook» is one of them. I buy a lot of gun books used. Even if it’s not the latest edition, not much changes.
Definitely take care of the fired cases. I dump mine in water with dish soap almost as soon as they are fired. However, the most important thing is to take care of the gun. It has to be cleaned after each shooting session. I often use a cable type cleaning rod that gets pushed into the chamber and is pulled out by the muzzle. That way the majority of the fouling goes out the muzzle and not into the receiver and action. I sometimes fire a round of smokeless when I’m done. I think it makes cleanup easier.

[beshears]

Most of the reloading suppliers sell vegetable fiber wads .60 thick. About $25 per thousand. Try Buffalo Arms, Track of the Wolf and many others.

[Bent Ramrod]

Get a copy of Mike Venturino’s Loading and Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West.

[Castaway]

Starline cases will work fine, but the rim thickness on 45-70’s are thicker than on the original 45-60 cases. If the rifle has been shot a lot, the converted 45-70 case may chamber, but in all likelihood, you’ll need to thin the rim to get the cartridge fully chambered.

[Captain*Kirk]

Hint: Drop the spent cases in water with a drop or two of dish soap immediately after firing. Not after you are finished shooting. I use a plastic coffee can and swish it around every couple of shots. When you get back from the range, dump the water and rinse with clean water. You'll be glad you did.

I use .030 Walters Wads and a Montana Precision Swaging compression die over the wad/powder. This will insure your powder stays compressed regardless of bullet seating depth. It also allows me to forego the use of a drop tube.

When you say "RCBS dies" are you referring to the "Cowboy dies"? They are better suited to BPCR loadings than standard dies.

[kootne]

What Bent Ramrod said, there is all the info you will need in that book, well researched, proceedures are laid out in order and reasons are explained. I will add my own advice for cleaning lever guns and trapdoors.
The challenge is to keep the crud out of the gun mechanism, between the barrel and magazine, under the front sight, etc. It will run in places it is inconvenient to get it out of. So you don't want the crud in liquid form. Paste form is better, it don't run that way. To do this I use a squirt sprayer to evenly dampen my patches with cleaning solution (water based), if you can squeeze liquid out of the patch it is too wet. Next, blow threw the barrel a few times, the moisture in your breath will dampen and help soften the crud in the barrel. If your buddies give you grief when they see you blowing in the barrel, just tell them you have a Winchester air rifle and you are reloading. Then put a fired case in the chamber. This will stop any crud from getting into your action. Run your damp patches in from the muzzle like if it was a muzzle loader. Do this untill the patches come out clean. Remove the fired case and you will need to run a couple more patches to get out a little fouling that will still be around the case mouth area. Dry patch and light oil. Have fun, I have one (45/75) and shot a lot of game with it back when I could still see iron sights.

Those rifles are an effective tool for taking game.
Cabinet mtns. NW Montana, fall of '99

[BillKilgore]

Thank you, everybody. Your advice is greatly appreciated. I’m sure it will save me a lot longer of grief as I come up the learning curve.

[BillKilgore]

RCBS calls this die set “Legacy”. I would prefer separate setting and crimping does, but this set will work for now.

[Castaway]

Do brass as Cpt Kirk said, but if you going to do the black powder thing, I recommend a decapping tool to remove primers before dumping in your soapy water solution. Shiloh has one on their website that decaps and also cleans primer pockets.

[hawkenhunter50]

What Bent Ramrod said, there is all the info you will need in that book, well researched, proceedures are laid out in order and reasons are explained. I will add my own advice for cleaning lever guns and trapdoors.
The challenge is to keep the crud out of the gun mechanism, between the barrel and magazine, under the front sight, etc. It will run in places it is inconvenient to get it out of. So you don't want the crud in liquid form. Paste form is better, it don't run that way. To do this I use a squirt sprayer to evenly dampen my patches with cleaning solution (water based), if you can squeeze liquid out of the patch it is too wet. Next, blow threw the barrel a few times, the moisture in your breath will dampen and help soften the crud in the barrel. If your buddies give you grief when they see you blowing in the barrel, just tell them you have a Winchester air rifle and you are reloading. Then put a fired case in the chamber. This will stop any crud from getting into your action. Run your damp patches in from the muzzle like if it was a muzzle loader. Do this untill the patches come out clean. Remove the fired case and you will need to run a couple more patches to get out a little fouling that will still be around the case mouth area. Dry patch and light oil. Have fun, I have one (45/75) and shot a lot of game with it back when I could still see iron sights.

Those rifles are an effective tool for taking game.
Cabinet mtns. NW Montana, fall of '99

That's a neat photo right there!!

[indian joe]

Hello all.

I have been reloading modern cartridges for a while, but I am about to step into the world of black powder reloading. I have an original (1883) Winchester model 1876 in .45-60. It is in great mechanical shape and has been fired only once in my 60ish year life. I got the bright idea of bringing this family heirloom back to life by reloading a some soft-firing cartridges. I have a few boxes of vintage ammunition, but do not want to pop them off due to their high collector value. They are loaded with black powder and 300 gr lead flat-tip bullets.

I bought five pounds of Goex 2F black powder since the factory is closing. I plan to buy some 250-300 gr cast boolits or perhaps cast my own. I am also watching the Starline site for new 45-70 brass. A set of RCBS .45-60 dies are in-bound.

I would like to ask the experts here to point me towards any good BP reading info that would be applicable to my situation. Much of the info I find online is for reproduction firearms firing smokeless loads. Any advice for a new BP reloader is also appreciated. It looks like I have some time to kill while I hunt for components.

Thanks in advance.

dont know if admins will let this through but if you go on the CAS city site theres an 1876 thread, a feller there "Dusty Texian" I bet would enjoy helping you bring this old girl back to life - no one cares more or knows more about these old classics .

[veeman]

There are more than a few of us that care!

[indian joe]

There are more than a few of us that care!

For sure !!! me included -- but I reckon DT is the master when it comes to shooting an original 76 ..........................

[Tar Heel]

For my range ammo I use wax milk carton wads at .020" thick. I place two of them under the bullet. I bought the wad punch for the 45 caliber wads from TOW I think it was. As indicated above, I drop the fired cases directly into a peanut butter jar filled halfway with water and a shot of Meyer's Lemon Verbena dish soap in there. I deprime soon after at home with a Lee universal deprimer die. I rinse and dry the cases.

I then clean the rifle with diligence and care.

[BillKilgore]

Thanks, Tarheel.

BTW - I am located near Wilmington.

[Tar Heel]

I have done a LOT of wreck diving out of Wilmington. Lots of history there!

Don't worry about loading the cartridges with BP. Just be sure to fill the case to the base of the bullet or the base of the wad under the bullet. Slight compression is good too. Use a good BLACK POWDER Lubricant instead of lube made for smokeless. Give a good crimp, shoot the darn things, and fill the range with smoke. If you decide to stick with it after all the fuss cleaning, there is a ton of information out there on making fantastic BP loads, powder compression, grease cookies, types of bullet lubricant, bullet alloys, and the list goes on.

I stuck with it more than most and got my rifles dialed in with BP. It provides very surprising results in these "obsolete" cartridges. I can shoot clover leaf groups at 50 yards with an original Winchester M94 and black powder cartridges. The modern day "tactical" shooters with all $5,000 dollars worth of gun & gear can't understand it.

Get to reading everything you can find about BPCR shooting, learn about the alloys that perform the best with these pressures, play with BP lubricants, and get a good BP bullet mold which will allow your bullet to carry a large lubricant payload. You will have a ball with this!

Nothing.....I mean nothing beats shooting an original rifle with an original BP load you worked up yourself. It's a revival for the rifle and it gives me immense pleasure to bring one of these historical items back to the forefront.