Which DA revolver for .45 Colt?

[KMac]

I picked up a RH 4" 45 Colt the other day in like new condition for $950 so they are out there in your price range. Found a Guides Choice chest holster in unused condition that fits a 4 inch RH for $100. So it is popular enough to find holsters for it. The Guides Choice also perfectly fits my S&W 25-5 4". Which is a bonus. I have never hunted with either one so I can't give you advice on which one to get. But the S&W feels much lighter than the Ruger. So I was curious how much heavier the Ruger was. The S&W weighs 2.9 lbs loaded. And the Ruger weighs 3.2 lbs loaded. Not near as much difference as I would have guessed. The S&W feels better in my hand and in my opinion is better balanced. Which is probably why is feels so much lighter. I think a lot of the weight difference is in the cylinder when comparing the two.

[downzero]

I picked up a RH 4" 45 Colt the other day in like new condition for $950 so they are out there in your price range. Found a Guides Choice chest holster in unused condition that fits a 4 inch RH for $100. So it is popular enough to find holsters for it. The Guides Choice also perfectly fits my S&W 25-5 4". Which is a bonus. I have never hunted with either one so I can't give you advice on which one to get. But the S&W feels much lighter than the Ruger. So I was curious how much heavier the Ruger was. The S&W weighs 2.9 lbs loaded. And the Ruger weighs 3.2 lbs loaded. Not near as much difference as I would have guessed. The S&W feels better in my hand and in my opinion is better balanced. Which is probably why is feels so much lighter. I think a lot of the weight difference is in the cylinder when comparing the two.

Yep! That's the best secret in revolvers! My 28-2 also fits in my Redhawk holsters.

[Outpost75]

Have enjoyed reading this thread, but I have remained old school. My favorites are a 1920 Colt New Service 5-1/2" and a S&W M1917 rebuilt by John Taylor with a Brazilian INA manufacture replacement barrel and an S&W Model 29 cylinder line bored and rechambered to .45 Colt. I have standardized on 7.5 grains of Bullseye and Accurate 45-264H wide flatnosed at about 900 fps. Works for me.

Attachment 289632Attachment 289633

[murf205]

This is the way I carry my 9.5" SRH. It rides under my left armpit with the barrel up my back. Believe it or not, when I am wearing a jacket it is unnoticeable. However, unlike Idaho45 guy, I don't have bears or cougars where I live so a quick draw is not needed. Of course the 9 1/2" barrel is not what you would consider for quick action but it makes this gun easy to shoot.Attachment 289537Attachment 289538

[glaciers]

Well I have to agree with Out Post on the old school thought, as that kind of load will take care of business most places.

I’ve been a 44 Mag and SPL fan since I picked my first Ruger Flat top in the mid 60’s. Still have that one which has been followed by 2 of my favorites a 4” model 29 and a 4” 69. Quit a few Smiths and Rugers in between.

Never got into the long colt, just didn’t happen. But I started a charter fishing business in Prince William Sound about 3 weeks before the Exxon Valdez struck Bligh Reef. The oil went south west so we went fishing south east.

But we started also taking people to shore for day hiking and exploring on or multi day trips. Big bears. Kodiak has bears of the same size, but PWS doesn’t have quite as many fortunately, but enough to make you cautious.

I started out carrying a 12 gage with slugs and my 4” Smith stuffed with hot J D Jones SSK 320’s. I really felt the 12 gage was inadequate and started carrying a 458x2 American with 400 grain Barnes Originals. Much better, but it always was that the rifle was in the skiff or leaning against a tree over there 20 to 100 feet away. So I felt I needed more handgun or a shorter lighter powerful rifle that would be handy on my shoulder. But a handgun was more practical.

I tried the 454 Casull but found it very difficult to control and recover for a second shot. It wasn’t a lot of improvement of the 44 Mag with 320’s cruising along between 1100 and 1200 fps. The 4” Smith was much smaller and lighter then the SRH. The 45 colt came to mind, but the SRH was to massive for zero gain over the Smith. Yes the very heavy loads will batter my Smith, but, I’m still shooting it but mostly more friendly loads as there’s only moose that might stomp you on the path to the shop and a occasional summertime black bear. Extremely rare for inland grizzlies in this neck of the woods. The Smith 25 was considered but not for the powerful loads I felt I needed. Single action was not a consideration.

But then Ruger in all there wisdom came out with the 480 in I think 2003. I picked one up used at a show for a fair price shortly after that. I had been reading up on these larger calibers and since I had graduated form the hyper velocity stuff in rifles years before I wasn’t interested in hyper velocity in a handgun. I had read some of John Linebaugh’s stuff on velocity, mass penetration. Made since. The 480 with a 410 cast at 1100 to 1200 fps would out penetrate the 454 with 360’s at 1500 fps. Not by much but when you add the more controllability of the 480 cartridge, I’d found what I wanted.

Ok, ok, the 480 comes in the SRH. yes but I had the barrel bobbed to 5” and gave it a good try. Recoil was certainly stout but not much more the the Smith with 320’s. More a push then a snap which equates to better control. Yea I know there’s some of you macho guys out there, bigger and badder then me, but I got over having to have the big bad 454, 460 or 500 Smith x frames just so I could say that I use one and the wheels for it are over there somewhere. The 5” 480 SRH in a chest rig as the hip holster was not a good way to go getting in and out of boats and skiffs. No pistol will float.

But I find the old 357 that was advertised as being able to blow a hole through a engine block would do most the work in most parts of the country. I carry a SP101 3” stoked with hot 180’s in my back pocket around here, because, and this is important, it’s always with me and handy. A bigger gun when your doing firewood or other chores around the homestead would be a pain.

Back to the true point of beginning. The 45 colt would be a great and is, but in a rig that is sized to be at hand conveniently when your thinking of critters. I’ve never dealt with cats but having something fast to hand and I’m all in for double action. I know a fair amount about bears, mainly black bears. You poke one in the skull with a 357, 44 mag, or 45LC and you will have a good day. Which reminds me of a friend of mine.

Well Bob lives out aways and loved to put his 3 black bears in the freezer every year. Bob has a big herd of kids and his freezers (multiple freezers) had moose, bear, salmon and when he could get it halibut. Bob kept he’s freezers full except for seasonal depletion. Bob always hunted with a 44 mag 6” Smith. That’s his bear gun, period. He used 86 Winchesters in 45-90 and a nice 40-82 moose. Nets for salmon and trading for halibut.

Anyway I ran into Bob in his shop when it was opened back up(closed a lot for hunting and fishing) and he looked a little white around the gills. Turns out he had killed a bear that morning, which was not unusual for him. I suspected he had more bear meat in his freezers then the allowed 3. So I had to ask if he was well and he related a very short story to me. Now keeping in mind Bob killed a lot of bears and always used his 44. One or 2 shots and clean up and let the kids and wife package it. No problem. Bears aren’t that hard to kill. But, this time he had a slightly different experience. And Bob admitted right off that he had screwed up and he was in some though brush not expecting to run into a bear in that area. The first shot wasn’t good. By the time the bears head dropped on his boot, literally, the trusty 44 was empty. Spooked him a bit.

But point is as others have pointed out, if you don’t place the shot right, well, you might not have a good day. Shoot a grizzly in the paw with a 416, 458 and your much better off with a 30-30 round in the boiler room.

A heavy slug in any pistol caliber, hot 180’s in 357 to 300 plus in a 44 or 45 at moderate velocity will do the job as long as it’s a good bullet. So if your set on 45LC for what ever reason, just get the pistol that fits you right. But you already know this.

Lately I’ve started to play with a 625 45ACP model 1989 to go with my newer Smith 1950 45ACP. I’m interested in heavy Bullets in these revolvers. I have a 265 NOE very similar to the 264 Accurate bullet Out Post posted. But the one that has my interest is also a NOE bullet. 318 grains with my mix. The 452-304 by NOE caught my eye when I was looking for the 290 which happened to be out of stock at the time. Can’t wait so I got the 304. So far I’m at a comfortable 730 fps with bulls eye. Going to try a little more as I’d like to come in around 800. Anyway 318 at 800 should be authoritative. I have a 230 RN HP and the 265 for gentle loads, but so far the 304 has been fun and I’m certain will work on anything drawing breath around here.

For the monster hand gun guys, have fun. My answer to those kinda hand cannons is a 45-70 Marlin cut down or my 458x2 in a 7 & 1/4,pound, 38” rebarreled Remington 600

[glaciers]

Bears are the least scariest predator in my woods. Cougars and wolves are much stealthier. Look up cougar attacks and how they attack humans. There is no getting off a first or second shot. It's about being able to pull a gun out and press it into the animal and having it fire while 200 lbs of fury are chewing on your neck .
Might be impossible to use your thumb to pull that hammer back no matter how much one practices quick draw fantasy cowboy crap

Okay I’m going to make a suggestion based on this posting. I have a Smith 1950 (new model 22-4) in 45ACP. Yeah I know it’s not a LC, but if you could find one in long colt, yes different model, not sure Smith makes it. But, size wise it’s a lot of horse power in a reasonable size.



Top is a SRH 5” barrel 480, middle is the Smith 22-4 45 ACP, the bottom is a K frame Smith.



In this picture the Smith 45 is top, a SP101 3” middle, and a J frame 2” bottom. The 3” and 2” I fit in my back pocket just fine. The 45 is a bit much, it’s a holster pistol. But is you could find a Long Colt like this…. Sweet. The weight of the Smith compared to the SRH is substantial.



But this is the 452 304 NOE an an ACP loaded round at 730 fps. I’m going to bump up the Bulls Eye loading one more time with 800 as my goal. Also so 2400 loadings to reach 800 fps. The load COAL is 1.383 which is long but just fine in the six guns. Couple of moon clips and ready for a pride of lions.

Out Post I believe was in the neighborhood of 900 with a 265 or 290, can’t remember.

[glaciers]

Murf205
That is awesome way to carry a big six gun

[murf205]

Thanks, it leaves the hands free to climb tree stands or navigate the thick brush common to the southeast where I live.

[Mackay Sagebrush]

In doing "Bear Drills" at a gathering for a number of years I have observed a good number of things that I can share with you guys.












Guys with the totally maxed out loads such as .500 whatevers, .454 Casull, even heaviest .45 Colt loads like 350s at 1400 in 5 shot guns more often than not fail. That is with all the other factors in their favor too. Not being surprised, having clean hands, starting at the low ready, etc. They still usually fail.

Guys shooting loads that will still fully penetrate a Grizzly bear skull, or to vital parts, and yet still be manageable for a competent shooter, using a double action gun such as a Model 25, Model 29 or Redhawk usually do OK. Loads such as 300 grain projectiles in the 1,000 -1150 FPS seem to be the sweet spot for guys to be able to recover from the recoil quick enough to get fast accurate hits, versus just making noise with their guns.

Lots of guys bow up and brag about their numbers, foot pounds of energy this, frontal area that, but the fact is, when you put them on a timer, and give them a series of staggered targets with a small kill zone, simulating a bear charging at you they completely fall apart. It humbles them quite quickly.

You cannot buy experience or skill from buffalo bore. That timer does not care either.



.41 .44 or .45 is of far less importance as is your ability to put multiple shots on target accurately per second.


With all that said, if my goal was to buy a gun purely for protection against bears I was set on a .45 Colt, and I was going to be doing a lot of hiking, I would look for a Model 25 or 625 Smith due to the fact it weighs less than the Ruger, as well as the fact it usually has a little better DA trigger out of the box. I would not be worried at all about shooting one loose.

[boatswainsmate]

PM sent

[Catshooter]

******, why doesn't this forum have a "Like" button? Excellent post Mackay! Bravo for reality!


Cat

[Mackay Sagebrush]

Since the snow came off the high country this year I have spent a BUNCH of time hiking in Griz and black bear country. Lots of trail time in central and western Montana. This last month I was north of Helena and staying at a place where the bears were THICK! Funny thing was I never saw a single one..

Every few hours they were letting us know they had been there. Often right outside the cabin door. Literally 25 feet from the door. I was packing a 1911 with 250 grain hard cast flat points that averaged a bit faster than 950FPS so I was pretty comfortable with my sidearm choice.

[Mackay Sagebrush]

Also brought a 10mm along with hardcast loads. The ability to attach a light to the gun at night was nice, especially since we seemed to have a couple of bears that were dumpster diving and pooping in the yard.

[StrawHat]

[QUOTE=Mackay Sagebrush;5272919… I was packing a 1911 with 250 grain hard cast flat points that averaged a bit faster than 950FPS so I was pretty comfortable with my sidearm choice…[/QUOTE]


My load for the S&W Model 25-2 is a 240 grain wadcutter at about 900 fps. Never tried it on bear but I would not be worried about it.

Kevin

[GooseGestapo]

I’m a bit late to this discussion but I feel I have valuable knowledge and experience to contribute.
Probably the best .45colt given OP’s desires is the Mod-25.
I “HAD” a Ruger REDHAWK 5” in .45. Yes, built like a tank! Weighs almost as much. I carried mine ONCE all day in a belt holster hunting deer and pigs from a boat. It’s a “crew served” weapon, in my opinion! But it was a tack driver! An over book load of #2400 under a Lee 310gr FNGC got 1,200fps and I once shot 5-touching at 25yds. Threw the sixth! Recoil was brutal.


I tried two different Ruger Black Hawks. A 4-5/8” convertible and a 5.5” New Model FlatTop. Both had bad cases of thread choke and were disappointing with either cast or jacketed.

I finally found the Smith Mod 25 Mountain Gun I wanted. It’s GREAT. My “Wyoming” load is the Lane Simpson load of 11.2gr of LongShot under the RCBS SAA 270gr Keith style SWC. I size them .454” and crimp well. Accurate and powerful enough to make the Wyoming power minimum.

Everywhere else I carry the Lee 255gr RFN at 9.5gr. It’ll still shoot long wise through our smallish deer. It’s enough! However, to purchase, it’s UNOBTANIUM”.

I’m leaving tomorrow going elk hunting in SW Utah with my brother. I’m carrying my Model 69 as they don’t have as many or as large of bears. I’ll have it loaded with 200gr RFN over 5.5gr of #231. Backed up with two speed loaders of 255gr Keith SWC over 20gr of #2400. I swap loads if bears are suspected around camp or cutting/packing out meat.
I carry it in the same SafariLand holster I carried my issue 686 circa 1996. It’s actually lighter than a .357 due to “bigger holes”.
I debated the G22 loaded to near 10mm w/175gr K-SWC but with 15rds, but weighs more than the M69.
A M69 can be had. Several currentLy on GB. ... Possession is 9/10’s!
The best gun for ANY purpose is the one you shoot well and actually have when you need it!

[Thumbcocker]

In doing "Bear Drills" at a gathering for a number of years I have observed a good number of things that I can share with you guys.












Guys with the totally maxed out loads such as .500 whatevers, .454 Casull, even heaviest .45 Colt loads like 350s at 1400 in 5 shot guns more often than not fail. That is with all the other factors in their favor too. Not being surprised, having clean hands, starting at the low ready, etc. They still usually fail.

Guys shooting loads that will still fully penetrate a Grizzly bear skull, or to vital parts, and yet still be manageable for a competent shooter, using a double action gun such as a Model 25, Model 29 or Redhawk usually do OK. Loads such as 300 grain projectiles in the 1,000 -1150 FPS seem to be the sweet spot for guys to be able to recover from the recoil quick enough to get fast accurate hits, versus just making noise with their guns.

Lots of guys bow up and brag about their numbers, foot pounds of energy this, frontal area that, but the fact is, when you put them on a timer, and give them a series of staggered targets with a small kill zone, simulating a bear charging at you they completely fall apart. It humbles them quite quickly.

You cannot buy experience or skill from buffalo bore. That timer does not care either.



.41 .44 or .45 is of far less importance as is your ability to put multiple shots on target accurately per second.


With all that said, if my goal was to buy a gun purely for protection against bears I was set on a .45 Colt, and I was going to be doing a lot of hiking, I would look for a Model 25 or 625 Smith due to the fact it weighs less than the Ruger, as well as the fact it usually has a little better DA trigger out of the box. I would not be worried at all about shooting one loose.

So you are saying hits count more than foot pounds? Totally amazing.

[memtb]

So you are saying hits count more than foot pounds? Totally amazing.

While I’m not a believer in ft/lbs, especially at typical handgun velocities, I do believe that one well placed shot with an adequate projectile trumps a magazine full of “hope”! Yes, being proficient at getting multiple rounds on target is “priceless” even if well practiced relying on time for multiple shots is a fallacy....multiple shots on target is likely a fantasy!

I believe that history shows that there is a higher % of attacks by an inspired give little to no time for counter measures! With that in mind, I’ll risk getting off only one well placed shot....hopefully, I’m granted enough time for that “one” shot! JM (unchanging)O! memtb

[murf205]

Since the snow came off the high country this year I have spent a BUNCH of time hiking in Griz and black bear country. Lots of trail time in central and western Montana. This last month I was north of Helena and staying at a place where the bears were THICK! Funny thing was I never saw a single one..

Every few hours they were letting us know they had been there. Often right outside the cabin door. Literally 25 feet from the door. I was packing a 1911 with 250 grain hard cast flat points that averaged a bit faster than 950FPS so I was pretty comfortable with my sidearm choice.

I have been amazed at how stealthly a huge bear can be. At my friends cabin in Ak, I had a cab over camper for a sleep quarters and our resident 9 footer would walk through the yard at night not 15' away from my bed and leave us the same calling card and never make a sound coming or going. Not even a poot! We couldn't complain though because that is/was a pretty good bear that never caused any problems other than a raid or 2 on the smoker. and the 2nd time it raided it we were sleeping and never heard the old thief!

[murf205]

Attachment 289673Attachment 289674
Here is one that stopped buy to say hi on the 4th of July this yr and share in the cookout.

[USSR]

Not a big believer in the kinetic energy calculation, since it does not take bullet diameter into consideration.

K.E. = \frac{1}{2} \times m \times v^2.
K.E. Kinetic Energy
m Mass of the object
v The velocity of the object

I find the Taylor knock-out formula which was developed and applied to African game rifles to be a much more useful tool.

TKOF ={{Weight times Velocity times Diameter} divided by {7000}}

Just MHO.

Don