Which DA revolver for .45 Colt?

[JimB..]

I get that folks have their favorite calibers, but for this application why not 44 mag? The 454 casull tops either, but the recoil starts to become a greater challenge when you’re shooting rapid fire with one hand (and hopefully your strong hand). Given prices I’d try to borrow or rent a couple of the potential choices before swapping out.

[Lloyd Smale]

i love my mountain gun but agree with the 44 suggestion. Unless your buying a huge gun like a ruger alaskan or a tarrus raging bull the 44 will just allows for more power in a simular sized package. A 44 smith N frame will take loads ALOT more powerful then the 45 colt version. You can even go smaller and get one of the 5 shot K frame 44 mags. I own and have owned MANY 45 colts. But that said ive always shook my head at the cult following it gets and even the same for the 41 mag. If your looking at handguns logically the 44 mag will always win. Its the 3006 of handguns. Its never a wrong choice.

[Bigslug]

I get that folks have their favorite calibers, but for this application why not 44 mag?

Fair point, but I'm pretty sure he wants to shoot his Bisley ammo in the new acquisition.

The round butt Redhawk in .45ACP/Colt is a nice choice. I often wish it had no ACP capability (I pretty much don't use it). The square-butt .44 will get you there as well.

Agree with Outpost75 that "flamer" loads aren't necessary. . .and they really aren't all that shootable in something as light as a S&W Mountain gun. 250-275 grains at 900-1000fps will solve your problem - slower even.

[Thumbcocker]

How many shots does one get in the average (if there is such a thing) bear encounter? How much time does one have to aim and shoot?

I have never seen a live bear so I have no frame of reference. If you are looking at a situation where you are going to get 1 or possibly 2 shots max. Does DA vs. SA make a difference? I don't know. Just asking.

[memtb]

How many shots does one get in the average (if there is such a thing) bear encounter? How much time does one have to aim and shoot?

I have never seen a live bear so I have no frame of reference. If you are looking at a situation where you are going to get 1 or possibly 2 shots max. Does DA vs. SA make a difference? I don't know. Just asking.

I used to shoot a lot of single action....it became a reflex, muscle memory action for me. I personally felt that for 1 or 2 accurate rounds I was as fast or nearly so, as compared to my shooting of a double-action. Whether it be single or double action, if you have a firearm of substantial “horse power”, some time will be required to re obtain the target .....this is where the hammer will be “thumbed back”! JMO.

For my hunting, I’ve gone to (in the early ‘80’s) a double action revolver....simply because I shoot them more accurately at longer ranges! I would use the same firearm for a potential bad encounter, not because it’s substantially better....but, that’s what I will have with me. My singles are now retired!

Oh....have also moved up from .44 caliber (429) to 45, for the somewhat improved performance on big animals! memtb

[downzero]

I get that folks have their favorite calibers, but for this application why not 44 mag? The 454 casull tops either, but the recoil starts to become a greater challenge when you’re shooting rapid fire with one hand (and hopefully your strong hand). Given prices I’d try to borrow or rent a couple of the potential choices before swapping out.

45 Colt out of the right gun has significantly more power than 44 Magnum, which makes sense from a physics perspective as the force of the powder burning is over a significantly larger area with a .45 than a .42 (44 is named after an earlier convention of heeled bullets and is not actually .44). How much more power depends on precise loading, but at the same pressure and with a similar bullet weight, .45 Colt is MUCH more powerful. .454 Casull is a much higher pressure cartridge than either 44 Magnum or 45 Colt, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, as it isn't just the increased powder capacity that makes the 454 a great deal more powerful than 44 or 45.

Either one of them will do the same job anyway, but don't discount 45 Colt out of the right gun. If you want to shoot a S&W or you already have a lever gun in 44 Magnum, it's the clear choice. But if you're starting from scratch and can shoot either, 45 Colt is just as good a choice as any. In fact, with the new Redhawk also shooting .45 ACP, it's almost a no brainer for me.

[JAC43]

45 Colt out of the right gun has significantly more power than 44 Magnum, which makes sense from a physics perspective as the force of the powder burning is over a significantly larger area with a .45 than a .42 (44 is named after an earlier convention of heeled bullets and is not actually .44). How much more power depends on precise loading, but at the same pressure and with a similar bullet weight, .45 Colt is MUCH more powerful. .454 Casull is a much higher pressure cartridge than either 44 Magnum or 45 Colt, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, as it isn't just the increased powder capacity that makes the 454 a great deal more powerful than 44 or 45.

This is complete fallacy. The area of the bullet base on a 45 projectile is larger than a 44 of course, but its not a huge difference. Do the math, force = pressure times area. We are talking approximately 3.2k psi more for a 44 Mag to reach 45 Colt velocity, using the same weight bullet.

[downzero]

This is complete fallacy. The area of the bullet base on a 45 projectile is larger than a 44 of course, but its not a huge difference. Do the math, force = pressure times area. We are talking approximately 3.2k psi more for a 44 Mag to reach 45 Colt velocity, using the same weight bullet.

I don't know where you learned the word "fallacy," but there is nothing fallacious about my statement. It is a statement of absolute physical fact. You may not think it's a "huge" difference (but that is a matter of opinion that is pointless to debate other than to say I don't agree), but given the choice of some or more, I chose more. And there isn't the ability to raise the pressure because the pressure limits are a given constant. It's not as if I can turn a 9mm Luger into a 38 Super safely by simply loading another "3.2k psi." The statement might be literally true, but 9mm Luger stops at 35,000 PSI regardless of what gun you're shooting it in, so some hypothetical that violates every rule of handloading (e.g., to never exceed the pressure limit for the cartridge) is a meaningless discussion, even if literally true.

The question asked is why someone would chose a 45 Colt over a 44 Magnum, and I gave my reason. The same gun is available in both chamberings, so you can choose whatever you prefer.

I see the 44 Magnum as an advantage if you have to be able to purchase factory ammunition, because factory Ruger Only ammunition is rare and there's maybe only one store in my area that carries it, whereas everywhere that sells ammunition can sell you full power 44 Magnum. But I don't shoot factory ammo so that offered zero benefit to me. And otherwise there is no advantage to shooting a .42 over a .45 at the same things; both cartridges will make very similar holes in whatever you shoot them at.

[376Steyr]

Numerous years ago I was approached by a younger colleague at work. He said he was going to go fishing in Alaska, and wanted my advice on what handgun he should carry in the event of a bear attack. I thought for a moment or two, considered what I knew of his marksmanship, and pronounced, "What you need is a .357 Magnum with a four-inch barrel."
He gave me a surprised look, and asked, "Isn't a .357 Magnum a little light for shooting bears?"
I laughed, "Oh, no! It's not for the bear. It's for you, when you get tired of the bear chewing on you!"
He immediately got mad and stomped off. I'm happy to report he did eventually go fishing in Alaska, and was not eaten by bears.

But wait! What if the OP is attacked by two bears at once? As always, Elmer Keith has the answer:

[memtb]

Perhaps we should look at the % increase of diameter, rather than just caliber. Going from .429” to .452” is approximately a .051 % greater area. Going from a .300WM to a .338 WM is approximately the same % increase in diameter. No one, or virtually no one would say the effectiveness of the 2 are almost identical. Yes, increased velocity differences will improve the lethality of the smaller diameter bullet.... but, only marginally! IMO For those that rely/believe in energy values.....the increased velocity may help the ft/lbs energy, but somewhat marginally at handgun velocities! I think the greater diameter bullet at typical handgun velocity trumps the energy differences! JMO

[Idaho45guy]

I want a pistol in .45 colt because my other camping gun is a Henry X in .45 colt. I'd like both guns to share the same hard hitting ammo.

[Idaho45guy]

How many shots does one get in the average (if there is such a thing) bear encounter? How much time does one have to aim and shoot?

I have never seen a live bear so I have no frame of reference. If you are looking at a situation where you are going to get 1 or possibly 2 shots max. Does DA vs. SA make a difference? I don't know. Just asking.

Bears are the least scariest predator in my woods. Cougars and wolves are much stealthier. Look up cougar attacks and how they attack humans. There is no getting off a first or second shot. It's about being able to pull a gun out and press it into the animal and having it fire while 200 lbs of fury are chewing on your neck .
Might be impossible to use your thumb to pull that hammer back no matter how much one practices quick draw fantasy cowboy crap

[Thumbcocker]

Bears are the least scariest predator in my woods. Cougars and wolves are much stealthier. Look up cougar attacks and how they attack humans. There is no getting off a first or second shot. It's about being able to pull a gun out and press it into the animal and having it fire while 200 lbs of fury are chewing on your neck .
Might be impossible to use your thumb to pull that hammer back no matter how much one practices quick draw fantasy cowboy crap

It always comes down to sarcasm and insults with you; doesn't it. I, along with the vast majority of folks on this forum, try to be courteous and polite in sharing knowledge. Perhaps you could step off of your high pedestal of knowledge of gunfighting bears and show me where in my post I mentioned "Quickdraw fantasy cowboy crap".

I asked a legitimate question due to a lack of knowledge on my part. You just had to go for the middle school snark. Are you even capable of basic social skills? Polite conversation? A free exchange of knowledge among adults?

I have to say that based on your posts that I have read the answer is not hardly.

Thus forum is made up of individuals with widely divergent life experiences, views, biases, and opinions. Threads are virtually always polite and informative. Why do you feel compelled to Wizz in the punch bowl?

[Idaho45guy]

It always comes down to sarcasm and insults with you; doesn't it. I, along with the vast majority of folks on this forum, try to be courteous and polite in sharing knowledge. Perhaps you could step off of your high pedestal of knowledge of gunfighting bears and show me where in my post I mentioned "Quickdraw fantasy cowboy crap".

I asked a legitimate question due to a lack of knowledge on my part. You just had to go for the middle school snark. Are you even capable of basic social skills? Polite conversation? A free exchange of knowledge among adults?

I have to say that based on your posts that I have read the answer is not hardly.

Thus forum is made up of individuals with widely divergent life experiences, views, biases, and opinions. Threads are virtually always polite and informative. Why do you feel compelled to Wizz in the punch bowl?

I'm sorry you took it that way. I was not trying to be snarky or attack or belittle you. I thought your question had merit and was honest. I answered with the reality of large predator attacks on humans.

Practicing quick draw cowboy-action drills with a single-action has almost no practical use when deep in the brush. Sorry if that offends you.

I didn't mean to be insulting or snarky and in no way insulted you personally, but your response was clearly meant to be personally insulting, attacking, and derogatory.

Yet you accuse me of the one being less than civil. Ironic.

[downzero]

I actually considered buying the single action model you already have. And I'd still like to have one! But I also agree and would probably carry my Redhawk for the reasons you outline.

And if there are only black bears, I carry a 357 Magnum...but not for the snarky reason addressed above. I just like it and 357 Magnum has plenty of power for most things that need shooting. It isn't a 300 grain bullet at 1200-1300 FPS though.

[Idaho45guy]

I will try much harder to remove sarcasm and snark from my responses. I am a really nice and humble guy in real life, which I believe comes across in my videos, but my writing style is indeed sarcastic and does not come across well.

[StrawHat]

I like my revolvers to be chambered for handgun cartridges and my rifles to be chambered for rifle cartridges. I see no need for a rifle chambered for a handgun cartridge.

I hunted for years with a S&W Model 25-5 and launched a 260 grain bullet at about 900 fps. This load, whether powered by Unique of black powder gave complete pass through on white tailed deer from any angle.

Likewise, for more years than I can remember, I have carried some form of S&W 45 ACP revolver for self defense. The older ones, pre model numbers get carried with hardball equivalent loads, usually a 235 grain full wadcutter over a hard ball dose of powder. The newer ones usually get the same loads BUT can easily handle the 45 Super and some gunsmiths are comfortable stepping them up to 460 Rowland.

If the N frame can handle the 45 Super and the 460 Rowland, it should be handle the same pressures from the 45 long Colt.

Kevin

[megasupermagnum]

Perhaps we should look at the % increase of diameter, rather than just caliber. Going from .429” to .452” is approximately a .051 % greater area. Going from a .300WM to a .338 WM is approximately the same % increase in diameter. No one, or virtually no one would say the effectiveness of the 2 are almost identical. Yes, increased velocity differences will improve the lethality of the smaller diameter bullet.... but, only marginally! IMO For those that rely/believe in energy values.....the increased velocity may help the ft/lbs energy, but somewhat marginally at handgun velocities! I think the greater diameter bullet at typical handgun velocity trumps the energy differences! JMO

This is the most ridiculous argument I ever heard for the .022" difference between a 45 colt and 44 magnum. There's differences between 300 win mag and 338 win mag, but you will NEVER see it on an animal. They are different names for the same thing, same as 308 Winchester and 7mm-08 are identical in effectiveness.

[memtb]

This is the most ridiculous argument I ever heard for the .022" difference between a 45 colt and 44 magnum. There's differences between 300 win mag and 338 win mag, but you will NEVER see it on an animal. They are different names for the same thing, same as 308 Winchester and 7mm-08 are identical in effectiveness.

I respectfully disagree with your comment! As an example there’s a reason that the .338 WM is much highly regarded, and more readily seen by guides in Alaska where that difference, though small, may be very important!

So, to attempt to follow-up on the rational of your hypothesis. The .308 and 7mm-08 are the same, meaning that the 7mm-08 and the 260 Rem are the same, meaning that the 260 Rem and the .243 Win are the same.....which brings us to the .308 Win and the .243 Win. being the same! You must’ve been a hoot in math class! Thanks.....you’ve made me smile! memtb

["Spoon"]

I sure like the Ruger Redhawk 5032 . It’s 45 colt and can shoot .45 acp with moon clips. It has a compromise barrel at just over 4 inches. I carry hot 45 colt in the gun and reloads in moon clips (.45 acp). I sure didn’t pay $1000 for it. It took me a couple of years to locate one. Super happy with mine.


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