Your math is way off. You list the difference as about 1/20th of one percent. You also first say increase of diameter and then say "greater area". There is a formula for the area of a circle and I don't remember how to do it, but the jump in diameter is only part of the difference, the increase in area makes it much larger.Originally Posted by memtb
The jump in diameter from .429" to .452" is 5.36%, but that is not the area. The % increase in area will be substantially larger than that.
Rule 303
The difference being you are comparing a 300 win mag, shooting 180 to 220 grain bullets, and a 338 win mag shooting 200 to 250 grain bullets. Ex. 300WM 200gr @ 2800fps compared to 338WM 225 gr @ 2700 fps. Not that huge a difference, and the velocities are nearly identical. Same thing with 7mm-08 and 308 win, bullets fairly close, and pretty much the same speed . 243 Winchester, you are shooting bullets half the weight of a 308. Ex. 308 win 165gr @ 2700 fps compared to 7mm-08 160gr @ 2600 fps. Then go to 243 win 80gr @ 3100 fps.
Now if you are really going to tell me that a person can look at a dead animal shot with both a 30 caliber 200gr @ 2800 fps, and a 338 caliber 225gr @2700 fps, and you can tell the difference, well then I bow you your experience. Now then reverse the roles, the larger caliber being slower, a 44 caliber 310 grain at 1250 fps (regular old data straight from Lyman manual, chronographed from my 5.5" Redhawk), compared to a 45 caliber 305 grain at 1150 fps (the very hottest H110 Ruger only load data I could find for 45 colt). Yeah. No. It isn't happening my man just because the colt is .021" bigger.
Last edited by megasupermagnum; 09-29-2021 at 11:49 PM.
Area of a circle is pi (3.1415) times the square of the radius.
Getting back to the OP's original question... Which revolver do you like or would you recommend in .45 Colt? IF you can find one (and yes, that is a very big IF), I would strongly recommend you at least consider the Dan Wesson revolvers. One big advantage to them that I see is their interchangeable barrels. Some situations would dictate your barrel length of choice would be 4" or less. Other situations, like hunting deer or other critters that are much less likely to chew on you that a bear is, perhaps a 6" or 8" barrel would be a better choice. One revolver, multiple barrels. The DW revolvers are also very capable of handling a heavy diet of "Ruger only loads" and are happy to deal with them. They are also known throughout the sillywett (ya, i know, spelling) shooter ranks as some of the most accurate revolvers made.
I picked up a stainess .44 a few years ago with 2 barrels and a gun rug for $600. That was mid-2012. The .45 cal DWs are much less common than the .44s, but I am 100% certain they are every bit as capable and enjoyable to shoot as the rest of the DW family are.
"We the people are the rightful masters of both
Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
Abraham Lincoln
My favorite double action are the Smith 25's by far but they are not as robust as some so pressures need to be kept down. If I was going with one of the more robust guns I would skip the 45 Colt chambering and go with a 454 Casull.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Going from .410 to .430 to .452 to .475 gains you about 10% more frontal area of the projectile with each jump in caliber. Because at handgun velocities you get virtually NO "shock" value, the size and weight of the bullet is the main factor in killing power. Larger frontal area means larger wound channel, and heavier bullets penetrate deeper and break larger bones. The saying is true, "There is no replacement for displacement." Having done the math, the difference in actual power between any two adjacent calibers is small. Jumping two calibers gets you some additional real world killing power. I doubt any big game animal could tell the difference between getting shot with a 44 mag or a "Ruger Only" loaded 45 Colt, but the 44 would be a lot easier to feed, and can also come in a smaller package, easier to tote. A Smith model 69 4" would be my choice, but in a 45 Colt you could go with a S&W model 25-7 or newer, as it has the strengthening mods and tighter throats. With the right powders, 280 gr. bullets at 1,000 fps are doable at acceptable pressure (<23 kpsi). If you want still more, then a 4" Redhawk is your answer. You can get 300s at 1,300 with it.
Thanks, very poor wording when I inadvertently changed from diameter to area, which was unintentional.....plus, I failed to properly place the decimal point. Our diameter numbers are similar .....as I rounded off, and I divided 0.429 by 0.452 which may have been a mistake. memtb
Last edited by memtb; 09-30-2021 at 09:06 AM.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“LETS GO BRANDON”
Diameter squared times .7854 equals area of circle.
I've had several revolvers in 45 Colt and have used both smokeless and black powder substitutes a 250gr bullet under a full charge of Pyrodex was 1000 fps on my chrono and wasn't that bad in the recoil dept. I'm not a hunter but a 250-260 gr bullet at a 1000 fps in nothing to sneeze at.
Except for lager game elk,larger bear species 45 Colt should work nicely.
Quote: Now if you are really going to tell me that a person can look at a dead animal shot with both a 30 caliber 200gr @ 2800 fps, and a 338 caliber 225gr @2700 fps, and you can tell the difference, well then I bow you your experience.
You are quite correct! When an animal already dead.....it would very difficult to ascertain the difference between the two cartridges! However, on a large live animal, there “may” be a noticeable difference! There is a reason that people that want large, potentially dangerous animals stopped quickly.....they generally op for a larger caliber.
I must assume that your velocity numbers for the 225 grain bullet from a .338 WM was impact velocity....as we’re running 2950 fps mv from my wife’s .338 WM! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“LETS GO BRANDON”
" I doubt any big game animal could tell the difference between getting shot with a 44 mag or a "Ruger Only" loaded 45 Colt, but the 44 would be a lot easier to feed, and can also come in a smaller package, easier to tote."
NOT to start any further arguments,, this comment made me chuckle. I know black mamba was considering most North America big game. But just last night, I was discussing a big game hunt a member here, (sixshot) just took to Africa. He took his game with (2) different handguns. One was in .45 Colt. (The other being a .41 Mag.) And the load & level of quick killing power impressed all the PH's he had with him. And one of his "big game" was a large Cape Buffalo. He hit it once, it went down, immediately, and managed to get back up, turned quartering away, and he hit it again and it went down DRT. His PH was VERY impressed,,, but made the comment; "Many a person has been killed by a "dead" cape. Put a finishing shot in the spine. he did,,, but it wasn't necessary. That PH was also the owner of the Safari outfit. He requested a cast bullet (LBT) as a souvenir. BTW; That safari group had never had dedicated handgun hunters there before. All the PH's were a bit apprehensive at first. AND,,, other hunters in camp were using various rifles,, and having to shoot many of their game 3,4,5 & sometimes more to make a kill,,, AFTER following wounded game.
Point being,, the .45 Colt is a VERY effective caliber on all big game, and that was the subject of the OP to begin with. And the OP already wants to use .45 Colt because he already has a rifle chambered in it. The .44 Mag,, while quite capable,, MAY not be quite as good when loaded with comparable ammo. And yes,,I do know that many truly big game & dangerous game has been taken with the .44 Mag. But the OP wants a .45 Colt.
We shouldn't try & change his mind.
People that hunt large big game “generally” choose a larger diameter bullet.....especially when handgun hunting! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“LETS GO BRANDON”
First off I am a confirmed 44 shooter, but even I recognize the advantage of the .45 LC in a revolver built for magnum pressure.
I also recognize that the OP is invested in 45, not 44 and that matters.
I own a very nice DW in 41 Mag and it is a tank and you can readily change barrels ....... if you can find one. Same thing applies even more so for the revolver itself.
In a DA revolver there are just two revolvers that stand out today that are reasonably available in 45 and that is the Redhawk and the SRH in 454.
If you want the ultimate in a .45 bore I would see about getting the .454 in a SRH and load it however you want within its construction. The .45 in a Redhawk will be very adequate as well but no .454 option or any downloads of .454 splitting the difference with the 45 ++ loads the Redhawk can handle.
Personally I traded my SRH in .44 for a SRH in .480 Ruger but that is another topic for another day.
Three44s
Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207
“There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”
I've owned 2 Redhawks and a SRH and a 25-5. Carrying the SRH will let you feel the weight pretty quickly. PERSONALLY...I wouldnt feed my 25-5 a steady dose of heavy loads, although they are stronger than a lot of people would have you think. Get the 4" RH and be a happy camper. It will stand up to what you are wanting to do. My 2 cents.
Murf
IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!
Having had to face down an actual bear in a berry patch in Summer 2002 with a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Magnum, I gotta say--that big ol' boat anchor did not feel heavy or cumbersome at the time. Quite the contrary, actually--it seemed like awfully light tackle to play this particular quarry with. The bear did not commence hostilities, so I didn't either--but since that time we bring a RIFLE along on our berry-picking jaunts in the local mountains--a 30/30 or 38/55 levergun, most often.
Yes, they are just black bears--not the outsized bruins that live farther north. But our black bears descend from pest bear stock transported from CA's national parks into the local forests (San Bernardino NF) from the late 1940s well into the 1980s. They are a PITA to mountain residents and visitors, and have little fear of humans. What those bears REALLY need is a couple alibi rounds launched across their bows, but I digress.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
I didn't find the RedHawk uncomfortable to pack but the SRH is quite heavy to me but that's just me. Both will handle anything that the OP throws at it within reason. As far as them being ugly as some say, they must not be too ugly or they would be plentiful and cheap. You are spot on about black bears and rifles. It has been said a jillion times; you use a pistol to fight your way to get to a rifle. My friend on the Kenai carries an M1 Garand when he is out on a walkabout. Talk about heavy!
IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!
I see several recommendations to go with a 4" barrel. If you are considering taking that route, please make sure to check your state regulations for restrictions on barrel lengths. In some states, the minimum legal barrel length for a handgun is 6". You don't want to go buying a new handgun to carry with you while hunting, only to find out the barrel is too short to be legal. Good luck in your decision and keep us posted. Remember though, without pics it didn't happen or ain't real. One never tires of pics of guns.
"We the people are the rightful masters of both
Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution,
but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
Abraham Lincoln
with that train of thought you could throw in a super redhawk 44 mag. Taffin had loads for that stout gun that ran on the tails of 454 loads. In about any platform the 44 will handle higher pressure because theres just more meat in the cylinder. I had loads for my 44mag bisley that pushed a 340 to 1225. I doubt your going to do any better with a 45 colt. Same loads would easily be digested in FA or redhawk 44 too and even more in the super redhawk. Seems everyone thinks its ok to stand on the 45 colt but God forbid you do the same to the 44 mag. Fact is max loads today in the loading manuals can be improved on in a good 44 mag too.
what i see is the same thing that happened with the 270. When it came out you werent cool unless you claimed your 270 was hands down better then a good old fashion 06 that only your grandpa would use. Then came the big frame ruger 45 colts and you werent cool unless you had one and loaded it with 300s. Only your grandpa would use the 44mag. It just wasnt cool anymore. Well come to find out your grandpa wasnt wrong after all. The o6 does anything a 270 will do and more. It IS THE RIFLEMANS RIFLE. No flash or cheerleaders but it just plain works. Same thing as the 44. How many times have you heard i can get 44 mag power out of my 45 colt. Yup you can but youll have harder problems finding brass.
You need to watch what guns you put it in. Now im going to admit a stupid mistake i made. I have proably a dozen 45s at any time. I was out with my small frame ruger montado one day shooting steel when one round went off and imediately i knew what happened. One of my heavy bullet stout 45 colt loads for my big frame guns somehow got tossed in that coffee can with the lighter loads. Dumb? YOU BET. But when you measure your shooting in thousands of rounds vs a box of 50 a month things happen. Lucky for me it just bulged that hole in the cylinder. Made the cylinder useless but at least it didnt kill me or blind me. I called ruger and told them exactly what had happened and they were went above and beyond and told me to send it in and theyd fit a new cyl. They went a step above that and two weeks later a brand new gun was shipped to me.
Might be just my luck but ive found over the years 44 mags were just easier to work loads up the 45colts. probably because theres standard specs for them. Not often you have to do thinks like open up the throats ect. About any 44 mag will shoot with a 430 cast bullet. Not the 45 colt some even have throats that arent tight but way oversized and need bigger bullets.
I know this is kind of off topic and dont get me wrong. I like my 45 colts. Of all my DA big bores its about a toss up on which i carry the most. My 4 inch 29 smith or my 4in 25. But favorite pistol caliber? Hands down the good old 44 mag.
Last edited by Lloyd Smale; 10-01-2021 at 07:39 AM.
For 45 Colt?
My two cents: I'd take a Redhawk, if I was going to load it up. For where I live,(Nothing bigger than black bears) I'd go with S&W Mountain Gun, if I could find one for less than the price of a used car. Not much you can't handle with a 250 grain boolit at 1,000 fps.
But I have to say that the only time I was ever in Grizzly territory--Idaho,1980, I carried a 6" 357, because that was the biggest gun I had then. I was there fishing with my friend Wayne who carried a 44 mag Ruger Super Blackhawk. I killed as many bears as they did of me.
_________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.
45 guy, I see that you are getting a lot of advice on what gun, what caliber and if this thread last long enough, I'm sure that you will get advice on having your brakes relined as well, so let me add 1 thing. I believe(for what that is worth) that boolit type and nose design is about as important as anything discussed so far. The meplat that has big sharp shoulders like a Keith swc tend to "get a bite" so to speak when encountering thick hide and bone, which is, I believe again, the reason they penetrate straight which is important if some critter is bent on making a snack out of you. RN booits just don't get that traction that the swc's do, although (here we go again) I believe they center up in the forcing cone of a revolver very well enhancing accuracy. My 2 cents worth, I'm up to 4 cents now!
IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!
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