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Thread: Lube too soft?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Lube too soft?

    The simple lube I've been using in my lube sizer migrated back into the cylinders on my 24-3 preventing me loading it on a shooting outing Sunday. Boolits were sized to the throats.431" over a moderate charge of Unique 250 gr. Gc over 6.6 of Unique. Possible they are slightly under sized.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Did you use an excessive roll crimp? That might prevent the case from opening up and sealing the cylinder. Not a max load for a 44 special, but toward the upper end of pressure.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    Did you use an excessive roll crimp? That might prevent the case from opening up and sealing the cylinder. Not a max load for a 44 special, but toward the upper end of pressure.
    Yes, they have a moderate roll crimp.. I think I undersized my boolits. Hot gas pressurizing the lube groove and pumping lube back where you don't want it. Could be happening in the case.....Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Cosmic_Charlie; 09-29-2021 at 01:15 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
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    Queston , would HiTek fix that.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBearHair View Post
    Queston , would HiTek fix that.
    I used to powder coat. Had this romantic notion about traditional lube in my wheel guns. No such problems in my Super Blackhawk. Or my .38 caliber revolvers. Dusty may have hit on the issue.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic_Charlie View Post
    I used to powder coat. Had this romantic notion about traditional lube in my wheel guns. No such problems in my Super Blackhawk. Or my .38 caliber revolvers. Dusty may have hit on the issue.
    There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to get traditional lubes to work. However, have you seen some of the PCed boolits made with a mix of clear and grey. Hard to tell them apart from pure lead.

  7. #7
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    How many cartridges did you shoot until this happened? I use the same soft lube in my Blackpowder cartridges that I use in my wife and son's revolvers and we never have had this problem during matches, but we only shoot 50 through each revolver. The rifles work fine also.

  8. #8
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    Try unresized cases and I'll bet the problem is gone.

  9. #9
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    I've used soft lubes and revolvers for 50 years and never had lube migrate or pump back into the cylinders ... 99.9% goes into and out the barrel .
    My lube of choice is ... Lithium grease (1 part) + Beeswax (3 parts) this is one of the softest lubes you can use .
    Give us some more details on lube , bullet , diameters and exact load . You do clean revolver after each range session right ?
    Gary
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield View Post
    How many cartridges did you shoot until this happened? I use the same soft lube in my Blackpowder cartridges that I use in my wife and son's revolvers and we never have had this problem during matches, but we only shoot 50 through each revolver. The rifles work fine also.
    Probably a couple dozen a few days before.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    I've used soft lubes and revolvers for 50 years and never had lube migrate or pump back into the cylinders ... 99.9% goes into and out the barrel .
    My lube of choice is ... Lithium grease (1 part) + Beeswax (3 parts) this is one of the softest lubes you can use .
    Give us some more details on lube , bullet , diameters and exact load . You do clean revolver after each range session right ?
    Gary
    I do not generally clean after each outing. I shoot a fair bit of revolvers. These boolits were sized to .431" the 24-3 has generous throats and I have shot many .432" powder coated boolits throughout it. The boolits are a gas checked design from Mp molds.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	289412 I did use a gas check and seated them over 6,6 of Unique. Simple lube recipie from the sticky.

  12. #12
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    Everything looks right , boolits look good , has the gas check , load looks rightous .
    6.6 grains Unique & 250 gr. boolit ... If you used a lighter charge of Unique that maybe would explain it , but 6.6 grs. should have been enough pressure to expand the brass to seal the pressure .

    Try annealing the brass cases . They may have become work hardened . I had some 41 magnum cases I wanted to "light Load" with Unique , the cases were hard and wouldn't expand ...the outside of a fired case would be black ... annealing the cases solved the problem , the softer cases would expand with lower pressure loads . I clean my guns after every shooting so I didn't have any build up or notice any lube in the chambers ... if I wouldn't have cleaned them perhaps I would have seen the phenomena .

    The lube should be OK but if nothing works ...try another lube ...
    I swear by Lithium (1 part) Beeswax(3 parts) aka ...Lithi-Bee
    if too soft add a little paraffin wax to stiffen it up .
    Gary
    Last edited by gwpercle; 09-30-2021 at 12:30 PM.
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  13. #13
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    How old were those cartridges?
    Maybe case neck tension squeezed the bullet diameter smaller over time. Anneal the case necks.
    Too much crimp?
    Can you feel the case mouth on a fired case and detect that the roll crimp is still present on the fired case the crimp didnít get flattened out by the bullets passage.

  14. #14
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    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle333 View Post
    Never had much luck with BLL in my revolvers. Works great with gas checked boolits in my 30 cal rifles.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenjoytj View Post
    How old were those cartridges?
    Maybe case neck tension squeezed the bullet diameter smaller over time. Anneal the case necks.
    Too much crimp?
    Can you feel the case mouth on a fired case and detect that the roll crimp is still present on the fired case the crimp didn’t get flattened out by the bullets passage.
    The boolits I was using were gas checked. The seated checks measure .432" after running them through a .431" sizer die - there must be a bit of spring back. I think the problem might be the roll crimp - not that it was sizing down the boolit but that it was sealing the case and causing the lube groove to be pressurized enough to release wax during the jump to the throats. I was able to clean the wax out with a nylon brush I had by rotating it in the chambers. Going to load some today without the heavy crimp and see how they do.

  17. #17
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    Think I figured it out. I had been shooting plain based boolits but the boolits that wouldn't go into the cylinder were gas checked and though I sized them to .431" the checks sprung back to .432" which apparently are too fat to chamber. Maybe that is why RCBS does not make a .432" sizer die. They do fit in my Super Blackhawk so I will shoot them up in that.
    Last edited by Cosmic_Charlie; 10-25-2021 at 09:30 AM.

  18. #18
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    If you still have some of those problem rounds, just mic at the case mouth and verify that you have not caused the case to swell up a little just below the roll crimp. Your moderate crimp is a bit more than what I would call it, but a lot less than a hard roll crimp. I realize you do not want the bullet to back out from recoil, but I think you might have more than needed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    If you still have some of those problem rounds, just mic at the case mouth and verify that you have not caused the case to swell up a little just below the roll crimp. Your moderate crimp is a bit more than what I would call it, but a lot less than a hard roll crimp. I realize you do not want the bullet to back out from recoil, but I think you might have more than needed.
    Will do.

  20. #20
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    Are you saying that lube was in the cyls themselves and prevented loading?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check