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Thread: Boolit Lube and Accuracy

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Boolit Lube and Accuracy

    We mostly hear about boolit lube preventing leading. Today I was talking to someone who is a very accomplished shooter and he was telling me how much a part boolit lube can play in accuracy. Can someone tell me more and what are some of the secrets for lube improving accuracy?
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    You don't gain accuracy from the best lube for a particular application, you lose accuracy by not having the best lube for a particular application/

    There is a lot of science involved, Do you want the short version?
    or the long version?

    Here is the long version...all 153 pages of it.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...lube-The-Quest
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Here is the short version.
    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...ubrication.htm
    Last edited by JonB_in_Glencoe; 09-25-2021 at 07:54 PM.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  3. #3
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    Another great resource is this list of ingredients and how each work in a boolit lube.

    http://www.lasc.us/LubeIngredients.htm
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    You don't gain accuracy from the best lube for a particular application, you lose accuracy by not having the best lube for a particular application/

    There is a lot of science involved, Do you want the short version?
    or the long version?

    Here is the long version...all 153 pages of it.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...lube-The-Quest
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Here is the short version.
    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...ubrication.htm
    EXACTLY, having the slipperiest lube does not mean that it will shoot the best. Accuracy is obtained with matching the alloy, velocity AND lube to the barrel you are shooting. Identical barrels will NOT respond in the same way.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

    Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    It is not a simple quest. When we tested the H&G 50, we got better accuracy by not lubing all the grooves...just one. Using NRA 50/50

    The “perfect” lube for a 6” revolver may not be the best for a 20” carbine.

    What works well at 10* may be mediocre at 100*.
    Don Verna


  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    My muzzle loader groups tighter by “PCing only” REAL boolits vs “lubing” only. My groups shrunk by approx 3/4”, or a little more, at 50 yards. My guess is the PC made my boolit diameter grow for a tighter fit and probably didn’t have anything to do with the lube?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Castaway's Avatar
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    Not mentioned is having partially filled grooves. As the bullet is fired, the gap, or gaps in lube around the grooves compress differently causing a deformed bullet to leaved the barrel. Probably not enough to notice at 100 yards, but a real issue as distances increase. Credit to Lee Shaver

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I am not aware of what I would view as intensive studies to answer the question completely. There are too many variables.

    My belief is most people find something that works to their standards and call it "accurate". We see it all the time on this forum. But what is accurate to one person differs for another.

    As to what "works", how many groups were shot to determine that? Were they shot in varying temperature conditions. Does "works" include first shot out of a cold barrel? Does it "work" for the first 10 shots, for 100 shots...200 shots?

    The reality is that in most cases it does not matter. Look at the recent discussion on cast hunting bullets. Most people lauding the effectiveness of cast bullets are shooting a large target at 30-100 yards...a few to 150 yards. Does it really matter if the load is 1.5 MOA or 4 MOA. Many people will call a load that kills a deer at 150 yards accurate....I do not...but it is all the accuracy they need...so it does the job!!

    I vowed not to make the same mistakes when I started shooting PCP rifles this year. I have recorded about 90% of the shots fired and under what conditions they were shot. Every group recorded is a 5 shot group. I have defined my minimum standard for "accuracy" as the average of five 5 shot groups. In some cases I have 30 or more 5 shot groups to establish accuracy. That takes a bit of work and range time that many people will not invest. Unless you love to punch holes in paper...it gets boring...but worse that that it gets frustrating. Let me explain.

    I have had a lot of bug hole groups ruined by a "flier". I know with a high degree of probability when it is my fault. Out of the over 450 shots recorded I have thrown out 2 shots...that is all. Some folks ignore "fliers" that may be inherit in the load they have developed because reality sucks. The more groups they shoot, the more fliers they get, and the more frustrating the process is. They do not want to admit their "wallet group" came from a load that averages three or more times as large...that is not "fun".

    Heck one guy here posted a one hole group that "proves" his rifle is still sighted in. He thinks his rifle and load is accurate!!!

    In your search you will get many opinions but I doubt 5% are backed up with good testing. It is not much different than the "science" behind Covid. People will keep the data that supports their conclusions and ignore the "fliers".

    I will end with one last example. PC bullets. How many have told us how accurate they are? A while back Larry Gibson tested PC bullets and concluded they did not perform as well as lubed bullets. So do you believe scores of reports of better accuracy, or one from Gibson? I made my decision in about 2 seconds...maybe less.
    Don Verna


  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    …I hope it’s still accurate. The load and gun shot three, three shot groups last year in a row under an inch at 100 yards before I away last year. To be fair though, I did shoot a 6” plate at 200 yards three times in a row at 200 yards the other day after my “1” hole, 100 yard POA check. On the serious side, once my gun with a particular load is proven I don’t waste any time or a lot of ammo if I’m just re checking my POA before hunting. I have put 1,000’s of rounds through just about all the guns I own like most here BEFORE I would just walk out and “shoot one load” to check POA. Maybe I should sit at the range all day and waste ammo? Wait…I did with that gun testing 4 different alloy BHs and several powders with each of them. Along with several boolits and crimp styles before I had a few goto consistent, sub MOA load combos. I’ll save the all day load testing new guns and pistols with unproven loads.

    I’m sure if you find some of my old posts on accuracy testing the 77/44 you’ll see how many days and rounds I put through it to have the confidence to check POA with “one” shot.


    To get to that point you have to spend ALOT of time behind the trigger like Dverna states…



    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...er-77-44/page2

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...man-devastator

    If you look some of my group buy 336 chambered in 35 Rem you’ll see some really tight groups with cast at 100 yards and beyond. Check out my Avatar to the left. So PC can very very, very accurate. You just have to put ALOT of time behind the trigger with alloy choices, powders, crimp styles, and also make sure your gun is cable of that type of accuracy before the “accuracy” quest begins.

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?u=46978


    I have another post accuracy testing the gun but haven’t run into it yet. The 243 I posted the other day to “check” zero has had thousands of rounds through it as well to get to that point. I hope everyone here has enough common sense to realize that. By the above post, apparently not…or Dverna is just teasing or razzing me.lol

    I don’t take affense to it, but you have your die hard “lube” guys here. If you mention PC to them it’s like calling their mother a name….fighting words. Good luck and keep us posted with your results when you find something that works for you and your gun.

    As stated above, Larry is a Wealth of formation here. He helped me with my alloy choices and many, many, other things.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-26-2021 at 09:58 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy DAVIDMAGNUM's Avatar
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    I don't know about a good or perfect lube increasing accuracy. I however do know from first hand experience that the wrong lube can cause problems like fliers and larger groups. Early on in my casting endeavors I had a lever action rifle that was giving me good to fair groups at 100 yards some days, good to fair groups with a flier or two some days and poor accuracy on most days. One day I dug a few bullets out of the backstop and noticed lube still in the grooves. The lube did not seem consistent, thicker on one side or none in one area. I didn't know how much of what I saw was from bullet flight or impact. I did however know that the bullets were not shedding lube. Looking at my notes showed me that the hottest days produced the best accuracy. I had been assuming that his was a propellant issue. I revisited a promising load with the same lube that I thinned with mineral oil while melted. BINGO! Big greasy lube star on the muzzle and repeatable accuracy at 100 yards.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Some of my research has been on lines affect on accuracy. My talkings with the now banned 44man gleaned a long series of tests for accuracy with the only change being lube. Felix lube showed an immediate tighter group than any other lube he tried. I thought it very interesting.

    I normally use 50/50 as it’s better to control leading from an ornery leading prone gun. I am a close range shooter though. And I’m not bent on the best accuracy. Just practical accuracy. That is, decent enough without a lot of fuss in getting there.

  12. #12
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    For the moment I am interested primarily in shooting BP. Does anything stand out as particularly different with lubes for BP vs smokeless powders ?

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy DAVIDMAGNUM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    ...... Does anything stand out as particularly different with lubes for BP vs smokeless powders ?
    Yes, black powder lube is usually much softer than any smokeless lube AND has no petroleum products in it. Shooting black powder requires a black powder compatible lube . Here in the lower 48 there are numerous commercial options, SPG , DGL (my favorite), BP-01 from White Label Lube.......

  14. #14
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDMAGNUM View Post
    Yes, black powder lube is usually much softer than any smokeless lube AND has no petroleum products in it. Shooting black powder requires a black powder compatible lube . Here in the lower 48 there are numerous commercial options, SPG , DGL (my favorite), BP-01 from White Label Lube.......
    You got it nailed , there is a different from the 2 , There is a number of different lube for BP also, beside for smokeless. I use what works for me in one then the other . I shoot both and use different one , then the other one I shoot. I make my own one for smokeless . It works for me for the shooting I do .
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    …I hope it’s still accurate. The load and gun shot three, three shot groups last year in a row under an inch at 100 yards before I away last year. To be fair though, I did shoot a 6” plate at 200 yards three times in a row at 200 yards the other day after my “1” hole, 100 yard POA check. On the serious side, once my gun with a particular load is proven I don’t waste any time or a lot of ammo if I’m just re checking my POA before hunting. I have put 1,000’s of rounds through just about all the guns I own like most here BEFORE I would just walk out and “shoot one load” to check POA. Maybe I should sit at the range all day and waste ammo? Wait…I did with that gun testing 4 different alloy BHs and several powders with each of them. Along with several boolits and crimp styles before I had a few goto consistent, sub MOA load combos. I’ll save the all day load testing new guns and pistols with unproven loads.

    I’m sure if you find some of my old posts on accuracy testing the 77/44 you’ll see how many days and rounds I put through it to have the confidence to check POA with “one” shot.


    To get to that point you have to spend ALOT of time behind the trigger like Dverna states…



    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...er-77-44/page2

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...man-devastator

    If you look some of my group buy 336 chambered in 35 Rem you’ll see some really tight groups with cast at 100 yards and beyond. Check out my Avatar to the left. So PC can very very, very accurate. You just have to put ALOT of time behind the trigger with alloy choices, powders, crimp styles, and also make sure your gun is cable of that type of accuracy before the “accuracy” quest begins.

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/album.php?u=46978


    I have another post accuracy testing the gun but haven’t run into it yet. The 243 I posted the other day to “check” zero has had thousands of rounds through it as well to get to that point. I hope everyone here has enough common sense to realize that. By the above post, apparently not…or Dverna is just teasing or razzing me.lol

    I don’t take affense to it, but you have your die hard “lube” guys here. If you mention PC to them it’s like calling their mother a name….fighting words. Good luck and keep us posted with your results when you find something that works for you and your gun.

    As stated above, Larry is a Wealth of formation here. He helped me with my alloy choices and many, many, other things.
    My friend...I was not “calling you out”....rather illustrating bad habits that are used to tout accuracy. You were smart enough to check that one sighter by hitting a plate repeatedly at 200 yards....that changes things!! Now you know for sure the gun is good to go. In your heart you knew one shot does not prove much...you are not a fool.

    BTW, the owner of the hunt camp next to me came over to check his .270 rifle last year. His first shot centered the 1” dot at 100 yards...he was thrilled and took a picture of his accomplishment. The next two shots deflated his ego and I proceeded to get him dialed in. Without the follow up shots he would have been in trouble. Having a 2” low POI at 100 yards is not acceptable when he may face a 250 yard shot along the power line.

    I agree with you about an established load. I only fire three shots to check zero on loads I know are accurate. If I need to tweak the scope, another three shots are normally enough. No point wasting ammunition.

    To everyone....Jon B’s link to that 150+ page journey to find the perfect lube is an important read. There were some talented and knowledgeable men involved. IMO, we are lessened by their absence.
    Last edited by dverna; 09-26-2021 at 07:42 PM.
    Don Verna


  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Do colors mean anything in general or is it just the choice of the manufacturer? An accomplished BP shooter told me he used a green lube. He may have been referring to SPG, but I’m not positive.
    Last edited by GregLaROCHE; 09-27-2021 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Typo

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVIDMAGNUM View Post
    Yes, black powder lube is usually much softer than any smokeless lube AND has no petroleum products in it. Shooting black powder requires a black powder compatible lube . Here in the lower 48 there are numerous commercial options, SPG , DGL (my favorite), BP-01 from White Label Lube.......
    Try this from Id*****w__ ,beats anything I"ve tried including SPG Bullshops NASA lube (prime ingredient) 1 LB Bullshops NASA lube modified by adding 2 /2.6 OZ bottles Stihl (ULTRA HP) No substitutions buy it on line if needed/ add to NASA and then refill 1 bottle 2.6 OZ (NO more) with Planters peanut oil and double boil slowly stir till melted and cooled . Sticky/real soft /and out performs anything I"ve ever bought/made . It is pricey but that will last many yrs and your search has ended /Ed

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