Need help diagnosing misfires with my muzzle loader.

[indian joe]

Winchester #11 magnum black powder caps. After I took my gun apart at the range and reassembled almost all the ones that wouldn’t ignite fired off. I am leaning towards the nipple wasn’t aligned up properly with the hammer. I am trying to figure out why it happened and how to prevent it in the future. I would have thought when the barrel slides under the barrel lock it would have slid perfectly into place.

BTW…I appreciate all the help and replies.


I did just watch a video from gunsamerica saying to drop a couple of grains of powder in the screw hole under the nipple when hunting for a more reliable ignition. I would assume that’s a given with percussion guns when hunting?

Thats a longwinded workaround for not loading it properly in the first place - when you drop the powder charge down - hold the gun upright and give it several slaps on the cheek with open hand right close to the lockplate - that will settle the charge into the powder channel close to the nipple so you get reliable ignition - dont do it and occasionally the powder will bridge and not run in there (its only a small hole (1/8"? or so)
When you clean it take the barrel off, remove the cleanout screw and pump water through it vigorously - make sure that ignition channel is clean as a whistle.
If this is an older Traditions with a 66 twist barrel? what the cheap lock lacks they gave back in spades with the barrels - patched round ball that thing should shoot as good as most custom guns

[Tripplebeards]

I started out slapping the gun butt stock but forgot during my range sessions.

Mine is a 1/32 twist. I was going to try sabots but only took the factory plastic ram rod with me. After wrestling the first TC 300 grain shock wave down the barrel I stopped. If I kept loading them I surely would end up braking my cheap plastic rod. When I get the new nipples from Amazon I’ll take along my TC Omega’s metal rod next time and try saboted boolits.

[Sasquatch-1]

I would have thought when the barrel slides under the barrel lock it would have slid perfectly into place.

I have had this problem with an old Tradition's Hawken built in the mid to late 70's. Sometimes a little tap on the muzzle with a piece wood seats it where it should be, but usually a little hand pressure is enough.

[Tripplebeards]

Just remembered I am out of #11 caps as well. I’ll have to keep my fingers crossed I can find some locally.

[indian joe]

I have had this problem with an old Tradition's Hawken built in the mid to late 70's. Sometimes a little tap on the muzzle with a piece wood seats it where it should be, but usually a little hand pressure is enough.

Common with old CVA's too if the lock plate is a neat fit to the nipple its a little tricky getting the barrel back - take the lock out otherwise you are putting pressure on something as you cam the barrel back into place.

[megasupermagnum]

It looks like others said quite a bit, so I'll go over what I see as briefly as I can.

The nipple is causing an issue. It's not uncommon at all for them not to be lined up 100% with the hammer face, and yours looks like it is off level slightly. It's no big deal, but it will probably continue to smoosh the top of the nipple like that. There is a quick and easy fix. All you need is a fine file or stone, and get that burr off of there. As long as the cap can seat all the way down so the priming is sitting on top of the nipple, it will go off. Chances are good that burr was keeping it cockeyed, and that was absorbing just enough energy to keep them from always going off. A very strong hammer spring can sometimes overcome this, but making sure the cap is seated will for sure work. Along with taking the burr off, or replacing the nipple if you want, you can also use your hammer to seat the caps. When you install a cap, lower the hammer lightly onto the cap, then use your thumb to add a little bit of pressure to seat the cap. I always do that when hunting, but not always when target shooting. The caps not going off after a few hits is not uncommon. I believe it is because the priming gets broken up after the first hit, so it doesn't work after that.

It is also possible your lock is a problem. For months I fought a Ruger Old Army that for seemingly no reason at all was about 50% reliable. I tried stronger springs, multiple sets of nipples, and all the different caps I could find. Finally one day I noticed just the slightest rub mark on the side of the hammer where it went through the frame. You couldn't even feel anything when lowering the hammer by hand. I sent it to Ruger where they installed a new hammer. It no longer rubs the frame, and just that small difference made it 100% reliable. I'm not familiar enough with Traditions to give any real help with fixing the lock or barrel fit.

You ask about putting powder under the nipple for hunting. What you should find is that after loading, if you pull the nipple, there should already be powder there. It won't be packed in tight, but there should be a few grains there. If not, something is blocking it. When hunting I make sure and lightly bump the side with my palm to settle powder in there. When target shooting I often forget, and it makes no difference. What does make a difference is getting fouling into that channel. I usually do this by accidentally swabbing a bunch of gunk into it. I like to swab after every shot, or not at all.

For powder, Pyrodex RS (rifle/shotgun) is like FFg blackpowder. Pyrodex P (pistol) is like FFFg. This is one area I think you can forget what a lot of people tell you, and try all the powders for yourself. There's all kinds of opinions out there. Don't overlook that Fg Dupont. My rifle loves Fg Goex. Real blackpowder ignites easiest, and is the most reliable powder you can use in a muzzle loader.

[indian joe]

Some of these cheaper guns had the alignment not quite right between hammer face and nipple top . I keep a cheap injector spanner (thats a ring spanner with a slot cut in it so it can be slipped over an injector pipe to tighten the fitting down) one of those that fits the nipple drum neat and you leave the nipple screwed in the drum for leverage - then can turn the drum just a little to get the hammer face to strike dead square to the top of the nipple - from the shape of the burred nipple, this gun needs that done.

That lock is a cheapie! CVA (and traditions later) put these on (some of) their single trigger guns, there is no bridle internally to support the tumbler so it relies on the hole through the lock plate and the flat surfaces rubbing, to keep things square. (kinda like a long shaft with only one bearing to support it) If you could scrounge up a spare lock with a bridle to replace it things would work much better.

If you wanna look theres a thread above titled "my fix for a CVA trigger" - if you go to post 32 you can see a pic of your lock (no bridle) and a CVA lock with bridle - they are interchangeable fit to the stock inlet and trigger geometry. Also shows what to do if you bend the sear nose on yours down the track .

[Eddie2002]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the upper lock screw that goes through the lock plate behind the hammer could be just a little long and dragging on the hammer when fired. I've found that it happens pretty regular with both kit and factory assembled rifles and pistols. I've been shooting an older CVA Hawken with a misaligned nipple for years and have found dressing the tip with a fine file can really help ignition. A bad batch of caps can be a real pain, just spent a day at the range with some older caps that wouldn't fire, just squish the compound into the flash hole which then needed to be picked out. It made me wonder if the lock was malfunctioning.

[Tripplebeards]

I ordered a pair of Traditions brand nipples off Amazon for $13 shipped. Four days later they had the exact same ones listed for $5.25 per pair. I recorded the cheaper ones. The $5.25 pair showed today and more expensive ones have been lost in the mail going on 5 days now. Lol I’ll have to get a new one put on and get out to test.

[GregLaROCHE]

The hammer needs to strike the nipple squarely. From the looks of the wear on your nipple it is not. The hammer can be heated and bent to the correct striking angle.

[Edward]

Not drilled and tapped…wish it was. The caps were purchased new a few months back. The 1995 gun looked like new when I bought it in March. I’ll have to google what nipples I need and and get a few ordered. How long does a nipple usually last? I’ve owned 3 inlines over the decades but never a percussion.

Sometimes as little as 20-30 shots depending on your nipple ,or Buffalo arms (BACO) sells a platinum nipple for $60.00 that the owner shoots in competition who has 1000 + /Ed

[Tripplebeards]

New nipples showed. I put a napkin over my nipple and dry fired it. I could tell it hit the front 3rd of the nipple only. I am sure it doesn't hit perfectly flat. I don't have the tools to bend the hammer so it will have to do. I ignited 3 caps in a row after the napkin test. Here is the first cap after I fired it. By the looks of the nipple it looked like it hit flat???



The old nipple had a chunk of a #11 cap inside of it completley blocking the hole. No wonder the caps were igniting but the gun wouldn't fire the last few rounds. Poor cleaning practices on my part. Lesson learned. Thanks for the help!

[LAGS]

If the hammer is hitting on the Front Third of the nipple.
You might try spinning the drum on your barrel just a tiny bit to get things to square up.
You said a plugged nipple was you problem.
But you might take just a little bit of time Fine Tuning your lock.
Who knows , Did the striking angle cause that old cap to shear off into the nipple hole and plug it up

[Tripplebeards]

It was one of my problems. I also didn’t have the barrel all the way seated into the barrel lug which IMO was the cause of not igniting the #11 caps. The hammer was not lined up with the nipple. I took the barrel out of the action a few times during my shooting session to inspect. When the caps did fire towards the tail end of my 100 plus round session the powder wasn't igniting. So I had a few issues going on.

I am tell from the above photo that the complete top of my new nipple was contacted by the hammer and flattened. It wasn’t like that when I tried with a napkin so I’m wondering if the extra thickness of the #11 cap helped even the blow?

[LAGS]

Sounds like you looked things over pretty good so far.
Good luck with your next shooting session

[Tripplebeards]

Fingers crossed, thanks

[GregLaROCHE]

It’s not that hard to correct the geometry of the hammer. You just need a torch with a small flame. Heat it red and bend it a little until it contacts squarely. Don’t quench it.