A good article on 357 mag

[dverna]

What I found interesting was that a professional guide/hunter decided the .357 was the best choice for him and his daughter.

Maybe the guy is a fool...I do not know anything about him.

Yet, he shot more big bears than I will ever see.

Non-issue for me anyway. I must be 2000+ miles from Boo-Boo’s that size.

[Tar Heel]

Non-issue for me anyway. I must be 2000+ miles from Boo-Boo’s that size.

You have "Da Bears" just a few hundred miles away!

[charlie b]

Recall that the guide who wrote the article killed a Grizzly (at very close range) with 7 shots from his short barrel 9mm (also using Buffalo Bore ammunition).

His math might be a bit off, but, the message is pretty clear. Have enough penetration to get through to the CNS. From what I can see of his math there is not a huge difference in penetration between the .44 and .357. If a .357 penetrates, eg, 28" in a gel block and a .44 goes 32" is one really that much better than the other? If you can place your .357 shots into a 4" group but can't keep the .44's on a 10" plate, does that make a difference? Those two questions are really the key to the article.

For those of you who can shoot a .44mag (or larger) with decent accuracy, then please do carry one. For those of us who cannot, then a lesser caliber is better than missing the target.

For those who did not care to look, this is the data from Buffalo Bore bullets.

➤ 3-inch S&W J Frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

➤ 4-inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1603 fps

➤ 5-inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1543 fps

➤ 6-inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1707 fps

➤ 18.5-inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2153 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 2298 fps

[Daekar]

Based on my own experience with canister powder in 357, I would totally believe the BB claims for velocity with that 180gr bullet. Not that I have any interest in that much power out of my J-frame, lol. Ouch. Guess it would be better than being eaten, though I would rather get a Redhawk even with the same barrel length for those kind of loads.

[dverna]

Charlie b,

I agree with you and your points are worth noting. Use as powerful a caliber as you can shoot accurately and quickly. For many folks (like me), that leaves a lot of excellent calibers out of contention. I am not loading for bear but I use the same criteria for defensive carry.

On a large animal, penetration would seem the primary requirement. I suspect those 180 gr Hard Cast BB bullets achieve good penetration...and would pencil through a deer. Shooting deer would be better served with a different bullet. Different needs need different solutions.

I got criticized on another thread for putting a 9mm barrel in my Glock 22 and using 9mm for self defense. After shooting thousands of rounds, it was apparent I shot the 9mm more accurately and faster. It may be the wrong decision theoretically, but I value good hits and quicker hits more than 50-75 ft-lb of energy.

Short story. I know a fellow who hunts black bears with dogs with a bunch of others. The dogs had cornered a bear and the guy went up to shoot the bear with his .357. He wanted to impress the ladies, so instead of standing back 15 yards and taking a well aimed shot, he struts up to within feet to try and deliver a head shot.
For some reason he only had two rounds in the gun (not the brightest bulb on the string) , neither round hit a vital spot and he got tore up after wounding the bear. So, he blames the gun (instead of his stupidity) and goes out and buys a .500...but it kicks so hard he cannot hit the south end of a north bound elephant. He had read something from an internet expert that the .500 was good and proper bear medicine.

[derek45]

[robertbank]

Derek45 what bullet is the third from the left?

Take Care

Bob

[derek45]

Derek45 what bullet is the third from the left?

Take Care

Bob

From left to right.

SNS 130gr, MBC 158gr, LEE158gr RNFP, NOE 360-176-SWC Keith

here's another pic of the LEE 158

[Shawlerbrook]

Great article. Got my Cast Performance 180’s and Lil Gun for my GP100 and it will be with me on my next Alaska adventure.

[358429]

Fun to read, thank you for sharing. I enjoyed the article except for the fuzzy math/perhaps delusional thinking. I see it as foolish thinking to believe a 357 mag is as effective as a 44 mag. If it works it works, does not make it something it is not.

That being said I shoot and carry a 20 oz. 357 snub. It is not easy to shoot like 9mm. A gun in the hand sure is a better outcome than your head in a bears mouth that's for sure.

I went shooting my 9mm on thursday and can hit the paper plate 20 times in 5 seconds at 8 yards without reloading.

Thats not possible for me with any revolver. The 357 snub chronographed almost 1100 ft/sec with 172 grain semiwadcutters, barrel 2.25". Average maybe 1075? Low 1059, high 1103. Recoil is stout and the fireball entertained me.

Thats not possible for me with any 9mm autopistol I own.

When I camp in the mountains the revolver goes in the sleeping bag with me, in a small safariland retention holster. I don't trust the cz to function inside a sleeping bag. It's 2021 where are the phazers in the 40 watt range?

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[charlie b]

40Watt? That's like carrying a rimfire Gotta have at least 500Watts The real fun is when you start shooting 1million watt lasers That was a couple decades ago for me.

[358429]

Fantastic pictures!

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[358429]

40Watt? That's like carrying a rimfire Gotta have at least 500Watts The real fun is when you start shooting 1million watt lasers That was a couple decades ago for me.

0.5 watts will pop balloons, light matches, make a visible dot outdoors on a bright day, and make a green lightsaber visible for miles at night. I'll be happy with 40 Watts.

A Rimfire in your fist beats a fishing pole any day of the week

We all know 500 watts recoils too much anyways



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[charlie b]

0.5 watts will pop balloons, light matches, make a visible dot outdoors on a bright day, and make a green lightsaber visible for miles at night. I'll be happy with 40 Watts.

A Rimfire in your fist beats a fishing pole any day of the week

We all know 500 watts recoils too much anyways



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LOL

We used 75W to cut sheet wood in our home business. 1kW is used in industry to cut sheet steel. Big stuff is for harder targets at longer ranges, sometimes very long ranges.

No recoil. Just big optics to lug around More range means bigger output aperture.

[358429]

LOL

We used 75W to cut sheet wood in our home business. 1kW is used in industry to cut sheet steel. Big stuff is for harder targets at longer ranges, sometimes very long ranges.

No recoil. Just big optics to lug around More range means bigger output aperture.

How many watts for Bears?

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[Jtarm]

That’s interesting, because just yesterday I read this article actually penned by Shoemaker in “Rifle” magazine, which says his guide rifle of three decades was a… .458 magnum.

https://www.riflemagazine.com/big-bores-and-brown-bears.

I’m gonna call BS on the article. Not on the story of Shoemaker dropping bear with his .357, but the math purporting it’s superior to the .44. While I have tremendous respect for Veral Smith, permanent crush cavity of a non-expanding handgun bullet is the meplat size, period.

IMO, if Shoemaker carried a .357, it was as a weapon of last resort, as in the bear was on top of him where a bullet in the brain or spine could save his life. Not with any visions of taking on a charging bear with it, though it obviously worked.

[Jtarm]

The guy seems pretty optimistic on his numbers for making his "mathematical" projected performance. 180gr. 357 mag at 1400 fps out of a 4" barrel? My guess is one would be hard pressed to see 1200 fps. from his 4" rig.

Yup.

Plus he’s comparing a .44 special to a scorching-hot .357 round old using a 180-grain bullet. An equivalent .44 bullet would weigh 300 grains.

The “formula” may be similar to one developed by Jeff Cooper, but I’m pretty sure Cooper would’ve said an equation never won a gunfight or stopped a charging bear.

[Char-Gar]

I am always mindful that an author can sell copy by taking a position that is contrary to what some folks think. Those who agree and those who disagree with certainly read it. It is a favorite gunwriters ploy and I factor that into every article.

I have never seen a big brown bear outside of a zoo and it is not likely I every will. So, any thinking I might have on what handgun is good to carry when hunting such critters is just a SWAG. That said, there are a couple of things I know on the subject at hand.

1. The 357 Mag round is a great round for a Texas outdoorsman.

2. In the past decades there has been a push to make bigger and bigger handguns that folks think are somehow connected to their testicles. Folks shoot these hand cannons and many damage themselves in the process. I have seen John Taffin's X-Rays of his hand and wrist. Not pretty! Folks seek to justify their need for these big blasters and frankly I don't buy most of their reasons.

[Tar Heel]

1. The 357 Mag round is a great round for a Texas outdoorsman.

Being from Texas I think you mean the 35.7mm Mag round?

[Daekar]

Being from Texas I think you mean the 35.7mm Mag round?

That's the 35.7mm Texas Magnum.

Jokes aside, he has a point. Controversial copy does get clicks and boosted engagement, and synthetic comparisons aside the 357mag IS a proven beast, especially when loaded to top pressure spec and used in a slightly longer barrel.