Selling Cast Boolits - FFL Needed?

[Castaway]

Now the flaming starts. Again, it’s an academic question you’re passing a value judgement upon. If the case is as you state, and Charlie's an LEO, it appears if he wants to arrest you, he can. Is it worth it? We’re each responsible for our own decisions. When I do a risk assessment, it’s not worth it for me.

[JimB..]

Now the flaming starts. Again, it’s an academic question you’re passing a value judgement upon. If the case is as you state, and Charlie's an LEO, it appears if he wants to arrest you, he can. Is it worth it? We’re each responsible for our own decisions. When I do a risk assessment, it’s not worth it for me.

Not flaming, but you should ask the AG rather than the LEO, and you should ask in writing since the specific language makes all the difference. For example, assuming that “charlie” is an expert on the law (he is not) he may still have interpreted your question to mean that you were casting with the intent to sell, in which case his answer makes perfect sense. It doesn’t reflect the fact pattern that we’re discussing, and it may not be what you said. The result is that you post a response that may be accurate for one set of facts, but not our set of facts. It’s also possible that you heard the answer that you expected, but he may have put important conditions on that response and you discarded them as unimportant. Nothing malicious, just the way brains work. Written correspondence is less likely to be misunderstood and more accurately shared.

Not trying to convince you to do anything that you don’t want to, just trying to moderate the paranoia that’s rampant in the hobby.

[Hanzy4200]

No agency is going to hassle you. Every gun show in America has a dozen older guys selling buckets of cast and jacketed bullets. Most even selling their own reloads. If the ATF wanted to collar people for this, they could arrest 50 people a week and do it for perpetuity. This is fear mongering.

I would also add. Are we a free people? When you are afraid to do something you know is not immoral and not nefarious, you are a subject, not a free citizen. The fact that this topic even has to be discussed is sad to me. The guys warning of this will be the first ones lining up to hand in their firearms. Just my opinion.

[reddog81]

Now the flaming starts. Again, it’s an academic question you’re passing a value judgement upon. If the case is as you state, and Charlie's an LEO, it appears if he wants to arrest you, he can. Is it worth it? We’re each responsible for our own decisions. When I do a risk assessment, it’s not worth it for me.

Hogwash. 100’s of non licensed people sell their guns everyday of the week and the ATF doesn’t consider them in business of selling guns. I’ve been to gun shows where random people were walking around selling guns and ammo along with ATF agents being present. You think they’re going to go after someone for selling $10 worth of bullets? The logic is laughable.

[Buck Shot]

Just talked to “Charley” of the Tampa ATF with the question and he emphatically stated whether you sell one or 10,000 bullets you cast, you’re in the business and therefore required to have an FFL.

So...I guess if you sell one GUN (gasp!) from your collection in a FTF intrastate sale or 10,000 guns, by the same logic, you're also "in the business"???

Sorry, nope, not according to fed law. Some states prohibit private firearm sales without a NICS check, but not fed law, which is what ATF enforces.

So the next question is, "You're allowed to sell a GUN without an FFL, but you're not allowed to sell "one boolit"???

“Charlie” is full of crap. His response is exactly what you’d expect

x10

Some LEOs would like it if we had to ask for their permission to breathe. And unfortunately, too many people would happily queue up in line to ask for it.

I like what Machiavelli said: "A government that does not trust its people to be armed is not itself to be trusted." I guess you could say the same thing about "selling a few cast boolits."

[bedbugbilly]

This is just an observation . . . . . the subject discussed seems to pop up every so often . . . .

I always find it amazing when a "law abiding Citizen" worries about if they will break the law if they "do such and such" (in this case sell a few cast bullets they don't need) . . . . so they look up the "law" written by the Federal Government in such a way thatt the interpretation is questionable and which if you contact the Federal Agency will be interpreted differently depending on who the Federal Employee is that you talk to . . . . . laws written by FEDERAL legislators who many times refuse to follow the laws they helped author in terms that even they cannot interpret . . . . the same government who wants to disarm its own law abiding citizens but yet has no problem leaving billions of dollars of weapons that fall into the hands of terrorist organizations . . . . yep . . . . makes perfect sense to me to worry about if you sell a few cast bullets that you don't need. I guess that one way to get around the whole issue would be to call them "fishing sinkers" . . . but if you do, don't forget to pay the Federal 10% Excise Tax for the manufacture of fishing lures . . . after all, the government needs all the money it can get to keep the borders open so the illegals can come in and not pay taxes. I read as many Federal Regulations as I can just so I know that I can't do something that won't allow me to sleep at night. Again . . . just an observation and if in doubt, call your local Federal Agency to get a clarification that if wrong, won't stand up in a court of law . . . so always get a signed written interpretation.

[dverna]

I was not smart enough to to understand some of the wording when I looked into doing a very small side business, but I was smart enough not to ask my questions on a forum. So I contacted the agency involved and after a couple of emails and phone calls I had my answer.

The answer was not what I wanted to hear. It did not seem "sensible" but is seemed legally correct. I abandoned my project.

Seems there are three options:

Follow the letter of the law.

Take the advice of internet "experts".

Do what you want and use "common sense".


I will close my comments with this example. Most of us will agree stealing is a crime. If you rob a bank, it will be treated differently than if you steal a T shirt from Walmart. If you take a sugar pack at a restaurant, it is still stealing but no one seems to care. Of course, in one city, you can walk out of a Target store with $900 of stuff and not be arrested....It may be against the law but the law is not enforced.

Like the beer guy says, "Chose wisely my friend".

[JohnH]

Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. 1st, you gotta be smarter than the equipment. If ya see a thread of someone wanting to buy some of "X" boolit, just post "PM sent" and keep your conversations about the matter off the open 'net. Better yet, just send 'em a PM. 2nd, If you have some of "X" boolit and just want to be a good neighbor and send 'em some, make a post and start a conversation, get an address and ship 'em. 3rd, If you see such post and and are unwilling to engage in a sale because you are so paranoid that the ATF is watching your every move and waiting for an opportunity to nab you up, stand you up in federal court and send you on federal holiday, ignore said post. Wow. Three pages over something so easy to just side step. And to think we play with explosives and pressure vessels every day

[Buck Shot]

...a very small side business...

Ding ding ding I think we found the "magic word" that makes all the difference! (As in "engaged in the business...")

[dondiego]

Ask your friend not to tell the ATF when you sell him the 100 boolits. Problem solved.

[toallmy]

So did I need a federal license to sell box of a hundred Hornady bullets to a member that was looking for some ? Or how about the Speer bullets I purchased from a member ? How would this be any different than a local hardware store selling muzzle loading supplies .

[johnsonian09]

You dont need it for small sales. User to user. If your doing it as a business, you need an ffl or a liscence. For example in the holy state of california, if you sell in excess of 500pcs of 'munitions' per month you need a special liscence, if you are not already an ffl holder. Federally components can be considered munitions.

Selling to your buddy or forum member has no consequences unless you are trying to make a living off of it. If you work a day job your probably not casting bullets for money

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[JimB..]

So did I need a federal license to sell box of a hundred Hornady bullets to a member that was looking for some ? Or how about the Speer bullets I purchased from a member ? How would this be any different than a local hardware store selling muzzle loading supplies .

I think you’re confusing selling with manufacturing. This discussion is about selling bullets that you manufacture, not about reselling bullets manufactured by others. I feel confident that Hornady and Speer are properly licensed.

[358429]

Six months ago I purchased a small cardboard milk box of 200 CCI Mini Mags from Walmart. Does the lady who ran the cash register need a federal license to sell me this??

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[358429]

Sometimes I like to cast 49 caliber round ball, it provides fodder for my Daisy slingshot and keeps me entertained. Do I need a federal license if I decide to sell these? Are they slingshot balls or are they musket balls? Sometimes I cast 95 grain 380 bullets, also to run my slingshot. I have loaded them in my 9mm and shot them and they cycled. Does that make them federally regulated munitions or slingshot projectiles?

What if I get tired of my slingshot and decide to melt them down to solder copper tubing together and make artwork from it? What if I consider my bullets to be artwork? What if my bullet identify as a Priceless French painting


Okok enough with the what ifs im just having fun
Too bad the ATF isn't investigating the sale of arms to the taliban in afganistan, I doubt mr presidential ice cream cone has an ffl 06 and paid itar fees...


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[JimB..]

Six months ago I purchased a small cardboard milk box of 200 CCI Mini Mags from Walmart. Does the lady who ran the cash register need a federal license to sell me this??

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Need more info. What day of the week was it and was she left handed?

[358429]

Need more info. What day of the week was it and was she left handed?

Okokok you got me there!! I can't remember and I didn't get the receipt notarized in triplicate

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[358429]

Coming back now it must have been a weekend and she did seem like she may have been wrong handed

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