Looking for 50 cal. Traditions Pioneer 1/32 twist load data

[Tripplebeards]

Picked up the side lock rifle this spring and can’t find any load data for it. Wondering what the minimum and maximum powder charges are for it. I plan on trying TC bulk sabots along with 250 to 300 grain cast boolits and also lee 320 grain REAL boolits. I’ll be using Pyrodex and Pyrodex RS. I’m guessing 120 grain max is going to be the charge?…and minimum charge…80??? Can’t find anything for load data for the gun. I’m going to try and get out the next few days and try it out.

[LAGS]

I would contact Traditions.
I have seen in their Kits that I have built , that they show lower charges than any of my books like my Hodgden reloading book or the info for my TC rifles.

[Sasquatch-1]

I shoot 60 grns. of Pyrodex RS in a 54 cal cap lock with patch round ball. I would start low and work up. I am sure someone will chime in with better info.

[mooman76]

I'd start around 50. It's a fast twist so push it with heavy loads can cause stripping. There is No minimum charge in BP. I would also use an over powder wad.

[Tripplebeards]

I called traditions. They tech service guy I talked with was zero help. Sounded like he was as young as my gun. I need to call back with my serial number so he can figure out what year it was made. Told me to use 2, 777 pellets in it after I told him it was a sidekick. He figured it was a PA pellet. I told him I believed my gun was made in the 90’s. Then he old told me to use powder(which I already new). He also told me no boolits over 250 grains! I asked him about my 320 grain REAL boolit and he said no. I zero confidence he had any idea what he was talking about. He said why go backwards with technology when you can go forwards using lighter bullets with sabots and a admitted he was lazy no that aspect. I already have an in-line and want to shoot my side lock with conicals and round balls. He asked why I wanted to shoot them and not to shoot any conicals through my gun. He also also said to have my gun checked by a gunsmith to see if it’s safe to shoot. Lol…my gun is brand new, never fired. I remember when this gun came out stating that it could be shot with saboted bullets. It was one of the first with a faster twist. The reason being certain states wouldn’t allow modern in lines with pellet powder and also sabots for hunting elk. I believe it Colororado back in the 90’s if I remember. Guess I’ll keep searching or just start low on powder and work up loads to 110 grains as listed in their side lock manual on line.

[Edward]

I'd start around 50. It's a fast twist so push it with heavy loads can cause stripping. There is No minimum charge in BP. I would also use an over powder wad.

No stripping with that twist , my Renegade 54 1-48 twist shoots a Lyman Plains (450 grains) over 95 grain OE 3F/ and my long range Renegade (1-17 ) Rice barrel /1-18 twist Bob Hoyt barrel 85 gr OE 2F so no stripping there!!!!!!!!!!!/Ed

[mooman76]

Your best thing to do is just shoot it and see what it does. Start at 50gr and work up 5 gr at a time. Even if they give to the minimum and max, you still need to see what load works best.

[charlie b]

The Lyman Great Plains Hunter is a .50cal 1/32 twist rifle. The factory claims it was designed for sabots with 'shallow' rifling.

I have fired up to 500gn bullets and 100gn (volume) of powder (Pyrodex). Most of my shooting is with paper patched bullets and 80gn powder. When I shot the Hornady Great Plains bullets (385gn) they liked 100gn of powder. Fwiw, I sized my bullets (including the Hornady's) to be a slip fit in the bore. Powder, card wad, lubed felt wad, bullet.

These days I usually shoot soft alloy bullets dropped from the Lee .500SW mold, paper patched. Cast, size to about .496, paper patch, size to .502 (bore dia of my rifle). The bullets slide down with just the weight of the ramrod. No, I do not hunt

FWIW, I did find the limit on this barrel. 500gn bullets from BACO were too long to stabilize, especially at lower temps. 450gn bullets did ok.

[Tripplebeards]

I called back with my Serial number and talked with Dianne this time. She's been workin there way before my pioneer was made. She told me it was designed for loose powder only. She told me pyrodex RS would work just fine. Also to load from 85 grains up to a max of 110 grains with both my lee REAL boolits and saboted ammo. She also told me they use to offer a 385 grain conical that worked good in it. I didn't shoot it today but ran into a guy at the range who I talked to 4 years ago when I was working on loads in my old 450BM using ladder test and 1st try with cast. He said I got him into casting and PCing. He has shot quite a few deer with REAL boolits he casted. He also PCs them only and gets 1.5" groups at 100 yards with 90 grains of loose powder.

[Sasquatch-1]

Just for your info on low end loads, I have dry balled my .54 Hawkins in the past. I got just enough powder into the breech area to drive the ball out. It was so slow that I watched it arch down the range.

Most of the guys I shoot with, who are shooting everything from custom Long Rifles to original Harper's Ferrys', are shooting between 60 to 80 grains of powder out to a hundred yards. It seems the lower end loads seem to be more accurate.

[Tripplebeards]

That’s my goal. To find the most accurate load at 100 yards. Might start at 50 or 75 yards first to make sure the sights are on and work my way out.

[Tripplebeards]

Tried my lubed 320 grain REAL boolits today at 50 yards. I used pyrodex RS and TC pre lubed cusion wads. I started at 60 grains and worked my way up. I tried 70,80,90,95,100,and 110 grains. My best group was 2 3/4" with the 60 grain charge. I then tried non lubed PC'd REAL boolits. It shrunk my group down to 2 1/4". I also tried PC'd boolits at 90 grains which was my second best group of the day. I didn't measure the group but probably a little over 3". Lastly I tried 65 and 50 grains with the lubed boolits but groups opened up. I did figure out that starting the boolit with my bare hand aided in accuracy vs starting them with the ball stater. Needless to say I wasn't impressed with any of the groups. It does shoot left and I forgot my sight pusher at home. I'll leave sighting it in for another day....they day I try sabots in it.

My best 50 yard group below. They are the 3 large holes to the left of center. Two touching and one to the left.



I have to say the trigger pull is ridiculously hard to pull. I’ll have to figure out how to lighten it. The trigger and the big wide front sight are hindering my accuracy IMO. I’ll have to figure out how to remedy this.

[Tripplebeards]

I finally played with the trigger today. The adjustment screw was seized in place. It snapped off when trying to adjust it. I changed the sear angles by filing, stoning, and then finished up with polishing the sear mating surfaces. It brakes crisp between 30 and 32 oz now on every pull. I still have to figure how I’m going to get better sights.

[charlie b]

If you have more REAL's then try them with a card and/or lubed felt wad over the powder.

I'd suggest the Great Plains bullet to try as well, with a wad and a stiff load. You can buy some to try out before investing in a mold.

First pic was when I investigated how often to wipe between shots. 385gn Great Plains All of those were without wiping. Round #1 was a sighting shot that was not fired at the target.

Second was the BACO 450gn PP bullet. Again, both were fired with a card wad followed by a lubed felt wad. The Great Plains bullets still had the factory lube on them, but, they had been sized to .502 for a slip fit in bore (not engaging rifling).

[Tripplebeards]

I have the mold so I will cast more. I used TC bore buttons over the powder charge. They look like a lubed felt wad/card to me.

I re tested my 60 grain load today with a lighter trigger. My four shot group at 50 yards…




She’s on the money! I just have to figure out my new ignition issues now from tinkering too much with it.

[Bullet Caster]

My accuracy increased with using wasp nest material over the powder charge of 90 grains of FFg in my 66 in. twist bbl. of my flintlock. Now when I get rid of wasps, I always save the nest material to use over the powder charge. Works great and the idea came from an old black powder shooter from way back. Just don't remember who he was. Bullet Caster

[charlie b]

Nicely done!

[Tripplebeards]

…and that was without wiping. If I cleaned between shots I had fliers every time.

[charlie b]

Yep. I find there is a 'sweet spot' of the number of rounds fired between wiping. Mine is between 5 and 10 rounds.

I also find that if I 'clean' the bore it is not as good as just 'wiping' the bore. Just one damp swab, a dry patch and shoot works better than cleaning it.

[Tripplebeards]

When I ran out of TC bore cleaner I got to the point of just running a dry patch through and not a damp one first…and found out it must have been pushing fowling down the barrel because I was getting caps to fire but not ignite the powder. Needless to say it wasn’t accurate that way either. Lol