Vintage 22 Rifles / iron sights / 50 yds / 'Good Groups' ?

[tazman]

I recently purchased and ended up selling a 10/22. The best "group" I got with it was about three inches------at twenty five yards. Average was about four inches. Very poor rifle. I tried every adjustment anyone suggested to get it going except replacing the barrel.
I really like the old bolt action rifles. I still have the first one I ever owned. It isn't a target grade rifle but it will still take squirrels consistently out to 50 yards. 95% of my squirrel shots come at less than 20 yards. Usually, I am almost under the tree the squirrel is in. I seldom get to try long shots anyway.

I am also seriously impressed with OS OK's shooting abilities. He is far more capable with iron sights than I am. The only way I can come close to him is with a scope.

[444ttd]

444ttd, you may be able to do what OS OK can do with your scoped 10/22. I have two stock 10/22's and mine are not capable of 3/4" inch groups at 50 yards. Maybe you got a good one!

my 10/22 can do 1 - 1 3/4" group with federal 36gr hp(550 round pack). if i use remington thunderbolt, cci standard or winchester hp, the groups are 2 1/2" + at 50 yards. i have bought two other 10/22's(my son's) and they do 1 - 2" groups also. i can't remember what kind of ammo, i think its cci or armscor. my dad has one, although i don't know what grouping he has. they are all stock too.

its amazing that OS OK can do that!!! my hat is off to you!!!

[OS OK]

Don, thank you...those are very kind words, I am humbled.
You have to remember that I'm running 3 different threads, 3 different disciplines & styles of rifles...the whole thing in all the threads is an experiment. It is very easy to put myself outside the box and just record what happens. The good, bad & the Ugly doesn't affect my Ego...I have to leave that out to get good data. Someday I'll get to the bottom of one of these 'rabbit holes'?

444ttd...I don't remember which Y-Tube channel I visited but one of the content creators has the 10-22 with a custom bull carbine length barrel and that kid shoots cloverleafs & bugholes...but, the rifle is ammo sensitive also.

tazman... If you look back in the vintage & MKII threads you'll remember that I'm no stranger to shooting 2"+ groups also. The success I am having with this Rem 33-P is due to the peep & post-bead. I am being very careful how I set up each shot. That front bead is so small that it just works well in relation to the 3" black spots. It works even better when I have good to bright light conditions and I can bring the silouette of that bead up under the white 1" spot.



In the above picture the top left 2 targets have a 2" white sticker for a bull and all the rest have a 1" white sticker...the photo was taken on a dim day so they don't really stand out like they do when the light is much better, but...you can see how that bead can be carefully placed up under the spot and centered well pretty easily.

[tazman]

OS----That was the whole point of this/these project/s of yours. Learning to get the groups smaller. Your original stated goal was to be able to consistently shoot groups of around one inch at 50 yards. You are progressing so well that it is hard to remember that you were not as good as you are now.
I believe you have not reached your peak abilities yet.
I would not be surprised to find you shooting consistently under .750 inches within the next few months using your peep sights. It may be you will get even better than that in time. Your progress has been amazing.
Doing all of this while shooting several different firearms is great.
The very best part of all of this is that we can collaborate. While we are doing very similar things, we are not doing them in competition with each other. We can use each others experiences to find ways to make ourselves better. Sharing our thoughts, perspectives, and experiences as well as our results is important to this.
There is far too much to be learned in this field to be selfish or egotistical about what we do.

[OS OK]

"The very best part of all of this is that we can collaborate. While we are doing very similar things, we are not doing them in competition with each other. We can use each others experiences to find ways to make ourselves better. Sharing our thoughts, perspectives, and experiences as well as our results is important to this.
There is far too much to be learned in this field to be selfish or egotistical about what we do. "

You nailed it right there taz...
You know that 'C-4' I ordered from Brownells came in...I think it's time to relax on this Rem 33 and find out if that C-4 will do anything to that black hearted barrel of the MKII?
I was planning on getting some before/after photos of the barrel and posting on your thread the results if that's OK by you?

I found a better cleaning fluid for my 22LR https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...id-for-my-22LR

If it'll get that barrel silver again I will be amazed...I've never seen a nastier barrel before....

...but then, I'm new to this 'Barrel Proctology' practice...the world could be full of these 'group spoilers'!

[tazman]

Go right ahead. I would like to see the before and after pics. I would also like to hear your thoughts and results on any difficulties or fine tuning of the process.
I posted that thread for information and feedback. ANY feedback. Positive or negative.

One thing I did find out about the process. The instructions call for leaving the barrel wet for 15 minutes or so. I find that if you can leave the barrel wet for longer, say 30-60 minutes, it allows the chemicals to do a better jib of softening and lifting the carbon fouling than the suggested time does.
Since the chemicals will not harm the steel of the barrel, this isn't a problem, just time consuming.

[OS OK]

Go right ahead. I would like to see the before and after pics. I would also like to hear your thoughts and results on any difficulties or fine tuning of the process.
I posted that thread for information and feedback. ANY feedback. Positive or negative.

One thing I did find out about the process. The instructions call for leaving the barrel wet for 15 minutes or so. I find that if you can leave the barrel wet for longer, say 30-60 minutes, it allows the chemicals to do a better jib of softening and lifting the carbon fouling than the suggested time does.
Since the chemicals will not harm the steel of the barrel, this isn't a problem, just time consuming.

I will devise a better method of plugging the barrel...say 2 inches before the muzzle, fill the bore with the C4 and allow it to sit for a full hour...how's that?
(maybe I can use a part of a foam earplug to plug the barrel?)

[tazman]

Test the earplug with the solution to see if it dissolves.
Since I was only concerned with the chamber area more than the rest of the barrel, I soaked a bore mop and left it in the chamber.
Rather than fill the bore with chemical, I think I would use multiple wet patches and just keep running wet patches through the barrel every few minutes. Use a brush to loosen and clean out whatever has been softened and run another wet patch through. Use a non metallic(nylon) brush if you have one. No wear on the barrel that way.

My MTR responded well after 30 minutes. My old rifle, which had decades of build up in it, took three applications with 30 minute waits before it came clean.
Like I said, this can be time consuming.

[dverna]

OS----That was the whole point of this/these project/s of yours. Learning to get the groups smaller. Your original stated goal was to be able to consistently shoot groups of around one inch at 50 yards. You are progressing so well that it is hard to remember that you were not as good as you are now.
I believe you have not reached your peak abilities yet.
I would not be surprised to find you shooting consistently under .750 inches within the next few months using your peep sights. It may be you will get even better than that in time. Your progress has been amazing.
Doing all of this while shooting several different firearms is great.
The very best part of all of this is that we can collaborate. While we are doing very similar things, we are not doing them in competition with each other. We can use each others experiences to find ways to make ourselves better. Sharing our thoughts, perspectives, and experiences as well as our results is important to this.
There is far too much to be learned in this field to be selfish or egotistical about what we do.

Tazman,
You nailed it. We all want to shoot as well as we can, but that does not mean raising ourselves up by holding others back and keeping “secrets” we find along the way.

I like the saying...a rising tide lifts all boats. We learn from our mistakes and successes, and we learn from the experience of others too.

[OS OK]

Tazman,
You nailed it. We all want to shoot as well as we can, but that does not mean raising ourselves up by holding others back and keeping “secrets” we find along the way.

I like the saying...a rising tide lifts all boats. We learn from our mistakes and successes, and we learn from the experience of others too.

"Don...YOU JUST NAILED IT!"

[dverna]

I will devise a better method of plugging the barrel...say 2 inches before the muzzle, fill the bore with the C4 and allow it to sit for a full hour...how's that?
(maybe I can use a part of a foam earplug to plug the barrel?)

OS OK, couple of ideas to plug the barrel. I believe some of the guys that blue barrels will drive a tapered wooden dowel into the barrel to seal it. Another idea would be to use the tip of nitrile glove over the muzzle and tape it on with something like duct tape or Gorilla tape.

Found this on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Solid-Ru.../dp/B07YLGQL6T

The #000 size is 8mm and could be sanded down to fit.

Good luck!

[OS OK]

OS OK, couple of ideas to plug the barrel. I believe some of the guys that blue barrels will drive a tapered wooden dowel into the barrel to seal it. Another idea would be to use the tip of nitrile glove over the muzzle and tape it on with something like duct tape or Gorilla tape.

Found this on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Solid-Ru.../dp/B07YLGQL6T

The #000 size is 8mm and could be sanded down to fit.

Good luck!

Thanks Don...this gives me some ideas. I have some surgical tubing that was used to cut circulation on a wound, old skool stuff...I'll try a little chunk of that.
I want to seal that barrel about 2" on the chamber side of the muzzle. I want to keep the carbon buildup in that last section of the barrel.

[OS OK]

Test the earplug with the solution to see if it dissolves.
Since I was only concerned with the chamber area more than the rest of the barrel, I soaked a bore mop and left it in the chamber.
Rather than fill the bore with chemical, I think I would use multiple wet patches and just keep running wet patches through the barrel every few minutes. Use a brush to loosen and clean out whatever has been softened and run another wet patch through. Use a non metallic(nylon) brush if you have one. No wear on the barrel that way.

My MTR responded well after 30 minutes. My old rifle, which had decades of build up in it, took three applications with 30 minute waits before it came clean.
Like I said, this can be time consuming.

If I can't get it to plug I can do it your way with a mop, that's easy enough.

thanks taz

[OS OK]

I have been trying to find peep sights for the Win. 67A & the Wards Western Field 46D so that I can re-introduce those vintage rifles in this thread all set up for peep & post/bead.
Looks like I am going to score the WWF 46D's peep first so I took her out this morning to set the bar with the Eley Contact and open iron sights...3" spots with 2" & 1" white bulls. (I wanted to see which bull would be easier to see, I do struggle with open sights at 50 yards!)



The front sight is missing the bead that was once there so I ordered a new 3/8's dovetail X .360" high X 1/16'th beaded post.
This is one of my favorite vintage .22's, it has a great trigger and is capable of so much more than I've demonstrated here, can't wait to get it set up for peep & post/bead!

[Prairie Traveler]

cool!

[Prairie Traveler]

I still have the Win. 69A, my Dad bought me, when I was in the 5th grade. It still shoots better than I can see!

[444ttd]

I have been trying to find peep sights for the Win. 67A & the Wards Western Field 46D so that I can re-introduce those vintage rifles in this thread all set up for peep & post/bead.
Looks like I am going to score the WWF 46D's peep first so I took her out this morning to set the bar with the Eley Contact and open iron sights...3" spots with 2" & 1" white bulls. (I wanted to see which bull would be easier to see, I do struggle with open sights at 50 yards!)



The front sight is missing the bead that was once there so I ordered a new 3/8's dovetail X .360" high X 1/16'th beaded post.
This is one of my favorite vintage .22's, it has a great trigger and is capable of so much more than I've demonstrated here, can't wait to get it set up for peep & post/bead!

well all i gots to say is.............WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

great shootin!!!!!!!!

[OS OK]

I got a peep sight for the Wards Western Field 46D... and it wasn't the original peep that came back in the day, this is a newer one that looks to me to be a Williams although the seller didn't refer to it as such. Heck I don't know, I'm such a Neophyte to all this vintage equipment.
Anyway, I measured it up against the barrel and cut the stock so it would fit...



I had a little trouble with the plug screws that were in the receiver, I used heat several times with a penetrating oil, gave it a few whacks to loosen them up...it was a battle. One gave up it's 80+ year hold and backed out and the other held fast. I had to resort to a drill and easy-out...nerve wracking! I kept hearing in my head the tips-n-tricks of that gunsmith who is always restoring old rifles, rifles that are basically rust buckets...sorry I can't recall his name but I owe my success today to him.



First thing was to try to align the sights with the existing front post at 17 yards. I ended up aiming at the 6:00 of the 3" black spot and was hitting 12:00 on the 'X'...that was with the front post buried in the peep so I could just barely see the post and the peep was adjusted all the way down. That was about 1.75" high.



I had ordered what I thought was a tall post & bead so I would be ready for today but I found out the hard way that these posts are measured from the bottom of the dovetail & not the top of the barrel. Oh well...live and learn...



I backed up to the 50 and thought I'd use the same sight alignment...



I got a total of 1 (one) shot in at the 50 yard bench, here's why...



It hit 7.5" high of the warmer spot. Well, that was an end to it for the day. I suppose I'll have to find a globe assembly for the front dovetail, sorta like the MKII has.
I could use some help on this part. I'm thinking of buying a Williams front globe assembly since I already have so many globes & posts for that sight.
But...should there be some of you that have already been down this road, I'm open for suggestions and of course links to where you found your front assembly.
I would appreciate that very much.

charlie

[Pressman]

I don't have any experience sourcing older peep sights, but I need a couple. I would think the Williams front sight would work well in this application, and you have parts.
That old Wards/Mossberg is a shooter, get good sights and you will be impressed with what it can do.

[OS OK]

I don't have any experience sourcing older peep sights, but I need a couple. I would think the Williams front sight would work well in this application, and you have parts.
That old Wards/Mossberg is a shooter, get good sights and you will be impressed with what it can do.

I haven't found a lot of information on this rifle but found this on a quick search...

(The Wards Model 46 cross references to the Mossberg Model 42, Takedown, 22 lr,l,s, 7-shot detachable box magazine. 24" barrel. Weight 5 lbs. Pistol grip stock made to NRA specifications, 1.25" swivels. Chrome plated bolt, handle and trigger. No. 1A ramp front sight, No. S134 rear sight, No. 3 receiver sight. Made 1935-1937. See http://home.epix.net/~damguy/ For Mossberg related topics.)

Ever little bit helps.
I think I have two options on the front sight...I have this gear on order from Midway.
I would prefer the tall post/bead so fingers crossed that it will work.