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Thread: Vintage 22 Rifles / iron sights / 50 yds / 'Good Groups' ?

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Good to see some of the old rifles getting range time, and some of us "old farts" having fun as we journey to the finial shooting range.

    I have typically gone "all in" when I got into a shooting game, but I have never stayed "all in" on one discipline for more than 10-12 years. Not sure if I moved on because I reached my level of performance or boredom. I even stopped shooting for a period of time. But there has always been another aspect of shooting that I wanted to try out or "master" so it has been a life long hobby for me. Now, at 71, it looks like all the stuff I accumulated will keep me shooting for as long as I live and I have enough saved to try a couple of more different paths...like I am currently travelling with PCP's.

    This post is way off target (like Charlie's beer can...LOL) but my point is we all have fun in different ways. So seeing posts like Charlie contributes are interesting even if it may not be my thing. And I learn stuff. A lot more interesting than "Help me!!! My 9mm is leading!!"

    BTW Charlie, looking forward to seeing how that M33 does. I have neve seen one before your post. Looks like a nice addition.
    Don Verna


  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Good to see some of the old rifles getting range time, and some of us "old farts" having fun as we journey to the finial shooting range.

    I have typically gone "all in" when I got into a shooting game, but I have never stayed "all in" on one discipline for more than 10-12 years.
    Not sure if I moved on because I reached my level of performance or boredom. I even stopped shooting for a period of time. But there has always been another aspect of shooting that I wanted to try out or "master" so it has been a life long hobby for me. Now, at 71, it looks like all the stuff I accumulated will keep me shooting for as long as I live
    and I have enough saved to try a couple of more different paths...like I am currently traveling with PCP's.

    This post is way off target (like Charlie's beer can...LOL) but my point is we all have fun in different ways. So seeing posts like Charlie contributes are interesting even if it may not be my thing. And I learn stuff. A lot more interesting than "Help me!!! My 9mm is leading!!"

    BTW Charlie, looking forward to seeing how that M33 does. I have never seen one before your post. Looks like a nice addition.

    Very kind words Don, I do appreciate your post.


    I haven't been involved with any of the competitions in all these years of loading & casting, just not my cuppa-tea...I've been driven by curiosity of the various aspects of what we do and have more than my share of things I've collected over the decades to play with. Cast pistol projectiles of the HP variety for instance, whatever I do I tend to get tunnel vision for however long that lasts.

    Something I never gave much credence to was the .22lr...it was a tool to introduce and train the kids to shoot, I'm embarrassed to admit that those old rifles have been safe queens since the kids grew up and went their own ways. The rifles I bought for each kid have gone with them in life. But since I don't have a convenient 100 yard range here without building an elevated platform-bench in my East Pasture, I haven't bothered with any CF rifles. I would like to again but my very close friend and mentor headed off to that range you mentioned earlier & that left me without a convenient place to shoot big bore at distance. The older I get the less likely I am to travel to a nearby range 30 to 50 miles distant through the mountain roads.

    It is a pleasure to shoot these old rifles, their quality and workmanship is admirable...80 years ago they sold for generally less that $30. Today that M33 sold for $250 and she is going to get re-worked before she appears in this thread...now I have a new distraction and I am having a good time so far.

    That beer can post was to 'jokingly explain' to Bigslug why I don't shoot those disciplines anymore, I find no pleasure doing that with such a broken up old body today.
    Bench shooting on the other hand is interesting and is holding my attention seeking to shoot these old rifles with precision. The rifles are more than capable to perform but I am not...it's that vision thing that haunts us old'Farts...trying to figure a 'work-around' to use those iron sights efficiently with that handicap has my attention at the moment.
    Since there are no rules about targets or equipment or how the traditional sights are used, it leaves me in another 'Rabbit Hole' of imagination, experimentation & application.
    "Yah...I'm having a good time in this 'upside down world' we live in at the moment. Playing with these 'old'Girls' is a wonderful pastime."
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I wanted to stay with the old front rest as it seemed more appropriate to this period...



    But I had to see what I might do with a little upgrade with the front rest and rear bag...



    not the best rest I have but it's adjustable, I wanted to see if I could dial-in that meeting point between the top of the front post and the spot?



    This is the rear bag I use to shoot 'free recoil' but I wasn't using it like that, I was fully embracing the butt-stock.

    My groups did not improve...



    Just like using the 'peep & globe' and having light diffraction occur around 'light restricting edges', I get the same thing with the area between the top of the post front sight and the bottom of that 2" black spot.
    I tried to just kiss that spot at 6:00 to where I thought I could see a sliver of light between, thinking I might be able to replicate that sight picture?
    This may be a workable POA, you notice all the hits off 4:00, that's where I would expect them with the wind this day but I have ignored the wind all together, only try to shoot each spot in the same level & direction of wind. I don't compensate for it's affects, I'm just keeping in mind what those affects are on this range.
    Until I can master this sight/spot junction and get consistent, compensating for wind would just cloud the results.
    The other thing I tried was to try and judge how well I did contact the bottom of that black spot. Still the diffraction makes it difficult to see clearly and it tends to make me focus either on the spot or the front sight. That's not a tenable way to handle the sight picture...hmmmm?

    Still working on it...those elusive 1" groups are out there, just mighty scarce at the moment.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  4. #64
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    These are strange looking targets along the top row...heh?



    The idea was to bring that front blade up under those 1/2 moons to just touch and leave a tiny bump on my front blade & have the full 2" width of the spot take up most of the top of the blade also...make it easier to get that blade centered up.
    Well it was another 'spitwad' of an idea like many I've had before but it 'sorta worked'. I didn't do my part very well but the 'sight picture' got better.



    I shot the bottom row the same way, leaving just a tiny bump on top of the front blade and it seemed to tighten up a bit.
    That encouraged me to try another card, I patched the above card and went again...



    You can see how I described the sight picture on the left.
    I think this has promise, I did get my first honest 1/2" group...never dreamed I could do that. But...accidents do happen at times.
    I think I'll stay with this for a while and see if I can use this POA to stop my looking at the spot and back to the front post.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    The old "aim small miss small" effect. The smaller the target you are aiming at, the closer you will come to hitting it.
    By reducing the size of the target you are aiming at, you are getting a more precise aim and therefore shooting tighter groups.
    Sounds simple, but difficult to do in practice.

  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Sounds simple, but difficult to do in practice... I agree taz, but I'll make a routine to follow, If I can keep from checking that spot and then refocusing back on the front post I'll be miles ahead.
    My best shots were when I came up centered under the spot & let it go when I had just a little bit of the spot left on the post. When I didn't trust my sight picture and went and checked the spot again I started throwing them off to the right & up and down.
    I got time...I'll keep working her.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  7. #67
    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
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    Still like shooting with my first rifle, an Ithaca model 49, single shot with a HECK of a hammer spring- I think that was a plan to make every shot count and conserve ammo- I recall my thumb wore out long before I got through a box of ammo.
    The essence of education is self reliance- T.H. White.

    Currently seeking wood carving tools, wood planes, froes, scorps, spokeshaves... etc....

  8. #68
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Gee'whizz... Ever try to tap that front dovetail sight over just a little bit? Just try to move that group 1/2" or so?
    Boy I went all over the place today...



    Does anyone have a link to an affordable dovetail type sight tool?
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  9. #69
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    You might be able to make one from an old heavy wrench or any U shape steel object 1/2'' or wider/thicker. Drill and tap the side of a jaw for a 1/4-5/16'' grade 8 bolt. Crude, but the same principal as an expensive sigh pusher, one jaw against the barrel, the bolt side pushing the sight from the other jaw with a wrench or socket turning the bolt.

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithaca Gunner View Post
    You might be able to make one from an old heavy wrench or any U shape steel object 1/2'' or wider/thicker. Drill and tap the side of a jaw for a 1/4-5/16'' grade 8 bolt. Crude, but the same principal as an expensive sigh pusher, one jaw against the barrel, the bolt side pushing the sight from the other jaw with a wrench or socket turning the bolt.
    Excellent idea Gunner...I'll have to go through the junk box & see what I can come up with!

    thanks...charlie
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  11. #71
    Boolit Master Ithaca Gunner's Avatar
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    I hope it works out for you. I got the idea from an old gunsmith years ago. He used a 2x2 piece of bar stock and milled about an inch out of the center to form it into a flat U, drilled one side, tapped it, and threaded a bolt through, simple.

  12. #72
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Lucky find...Are these new to the market or was I not able to find them before?



    Using the 'Peep & Post' (which I will be using with the Rem. 33 soon and the Sav. MKII in it's thread <New to using a {'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...}[ https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...0-yards/page40 ) I have found that 2" spots are easier to center in the globe but they are just a tad-bit too small & the 4" spots I have been spray painting with a template are just a tad-bit too large.

    I've used 3" spots before but these are expensive and a real stinker to measure...



    The problem with the 4" spots is that they are not only a tad-bit large for the globe but they are a pain in the tusch to make and only 6 can fit a card without interfering with each other's sight picture...



    Some time in the middle of next week they should arrive...
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  13. #73
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I print my targets. Printer ink is not that cheap though but it is convenient and versatile. I create the targets using CAD. Unfortunately my CAD app doesn't run properly on Windows 10 and won't print, so I use another CAD app that I just cannot master, to do the printing. It's either a bad CAD or a bad operator!

    But I digress. We are still in lockdown so no sign of the range opening in sight. I'm really eager to test my little Slazenger single shot. I'll be testing it with a reflex sight and a scope. I have already established it's accuracy potential, now I just want to see what it does with a reflex. Then I'm going to test my second Toz-17 with a scope. It has a really nice bore. I tried slipping a fired case into the chamber and it's tight! So, I'm hoping that a tighter chamber might make the difference.

    I just wish this lockdown would end now. I'm tired of it. (Only from the point that the range isn't opening mind you). I have four rifles waiting to be tested (one being my 1898 303 carbine with paper patch loads). Three old 22's to test. I have this thing for old rifles. I just wish I had an even older 22. Mine are all from the 1930's on. Either way, they're all older than I am. Makes me feel younger.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  14. #74
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    I print my targets. Printer ink is not that cheap though but it is convenient and versatile. I create the targets using CAD. Unfortunately my CAD app doesn't run properly on Windows 10 and won't print, so I use another CAD app that I just cannot master, to do the printing. It's either a bad CAD or a bad operator!

    But I digress. We are still in lockdown so no sign of the range opening in sight. I'm really eager to test my little Slazenger single shot. I'll be testing it with a reflex sight and a scope. I have already established it's accuracy potential, now I just want to see what it does with a reflex. Then I'm going to test my second Toz-17 with a scope. It has a really nice bore. I tried slipping a fired case into the chamber and it's tight! So, I'm hoping that a tighter chamber might make the difference.

    I just wish this lockdown would end now. I'm tired of it. (Only from the point that the range isn't opening mind you). I have four rifles waiting to be tested (one being my 1898 303 carbine with paper patch loads). Three old 22's to test. I have this thing for old rifles. I just wish I had an even older 22. Mine are all from the 1930's on. Either way, they're all older than I am. Makes me feel younger.
    I hope it ends as well...it's wrecking the world..ugggg! Don't let me get started on Covid!
    I can't imagine being barred from the range...that's my 'peace of mind place'! All the problems of the world go away when I'm on the bench.

    I set the MKII up with a 'Peep & Post' giving me a sight picture (sorta?) of what the Remington 33 will be like with 3" spots at 50 yds...



    I get to pick up the 33 this Tuesday along with 5 bricks of Eley Contact.
    I'm posting the MKII's work today in it's thread just now.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...BE-at-50-yards > New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  15. #75
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    I print my targets. Printer ink is not that cheap though but it is convenient and versatile. I create the targets using CAD. Unfortunately my CAD app doesn't run properly on Windows 10 and won't print, so I use another CAD app that I just cannot master, to do the printing. It's either a bad CAD or a bad operator!

    But I digress. We are still in lockdown so no sign of the range opening in sight. I'm really eager to test my little Slazenger single shot. I'll be testing it with a reflex sight and a scope. I have already established it's accuracy potential, now I just want to see what it does with a reflex. Then I'm going to test my second Toz-17 with a scope. It has a really nice bore. I tried slipping a fired case into the chamber and it's tight! So, I'm hoping that a tighter chamber might make the difference.

    I just wish this lockdown would end now. I'm tired of it. (Only from the point that the range isn't opening mind you). I have four rifles waiting to be tested (one being my 1898 303 carbine with paper patch loads). Three old 22's to test. I have this thing for old rifles. I just wish I had an even older 22. Mine are all from the 1930's on. Either way, they're all older than I am. Makes me feel younger.
    I also print my own targets. I use laser printer so the cost of printing goes way down compared to ink jet. Also is much faster as a rule.
    Black, high yield inkjet cartridges for HP printers run $40-$50 and get 400-500 pages. The Brother laserjet cartridges I use cost about $60 and get 2500 pages per cartridge. They also don't dry out and quit working before they run out of toner.
    50% more money per cartridge but 500% more targets. I figure my targets cost less than 4 cents apiece.
    I download targets from the internet, usually in .pdf form. Many different targets are free to download. There is nearly any conceivable target out there.
    If you want something you can't find already made up, draw one one a piece of paper, take a picture of it, insert it into a document and print away.
    I adjust the print size to get the measured size that I want. You can do this in print properties when you start the print sequence. It sometimes takes a trial print or two in order to get the size right, but then you can print as many as you wish. Write the setting down somewhere and you can repeat it as needed.

  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Finally...Pick-up day for the Remington 33.
    Got her home, gave her a steel wool & Hoppes bath, cleaned and polished the bore, now she joins the daily lineup of shooters (for a little while only, I'm going to detail clean the Lyman 55 peep sight & strip and re-oil the stock...



    I did want to play with her a little before she gets torn apart again.
    I started on the 25 yard line on my trash can to get her sighted fairly well before I went back to the 50.



    Just wanted to make sure I was on paper.
    Then I backed up to the 50 for another 10 shots on a 4" & 6" spot...need to see what size target spot will be the easiest to use with this Peep & Post Bead.



    I have 3' spots being delivered this afternoon, I think I can shoot them using the sight alignment (punkin on the post) I used on the 25 with the 2" spots.
    But thats the first 20 rounds through her & I think she is going to be a good shooter!
    I'll get back out in the morning with a card set up with 3" spots and see what I can do?
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  17. #77
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Shot 2 cards this morning... with the Rem. 33 before I started re-working that Lyman 55 peep sight...
    didn't do too awful bad with these 3" spots...it's going to take some serious practice to get it dialed in...





    I think, not sure yet but I think I have the sight picture that'll work, this is what I am trying to see...(not drawn to scale)



    That white 1" center seems to stand out when it is sitting atop the front post-bead. Below is the actual sight picture but in this picture you can't see the 1" white center spots like I can...these iPhone cameras leave a little to be desired trying to shoot these pics.



    Well...that's the plan anyway until something new surfaces...
    After practice I took the Lyman 55 peep off and disassembled it...I've been dreading this as I don't do well handling these micro sized screws and such with my bear paw hands.
    I used naval jelly to strip them of rust and old blueing, then used an old bottle of Birchwood Casey Perma Blue, this stuff has been in the shop so long, I don't even remember when or where I got this stuff...



    Easy stuff to work with and does a pretty good job, here's the before and after of this afternoons follies...







    I might have done a better job if I had gotten the Dremmel out, clamped it to the bench and used it as a micro buffer but I was scared to death to snag one of the screws or parts and throw them into oblivion somewhere in the shop...little parts like these usually don't get found once they learn to fly! I will settle for what I've got so far.

    Next phase, starting in the morning will be the stock and I plan to use this combination of stripper and Teak Oil...I am looking for a flat 'rubbed oil' finish & natural walnut coloring, no gloss.



    Of course...after I shoot 2 more cards. I look forward to the wood work as I enjoy working in wood, there's a pleasure I get from seeing the natural beauty of the grain popping out. More tomorrow . . .
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  18. #78
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    That sight cleaned up beautifully. The rifle shot pretty well also.

  19. #79
    Boolit Buddy
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    Look like it shoots well, as far as the stock. From my experience with 22 stock refinishing, what wood you think it is it’s not. They used to stain them to look like walnut, but you won’t know for sure till you strip the old finish off. So you may need to stain it again.
    Armed society is a polite society
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  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    That came out well, OS.

    Loctite Navel Jelly hey? Just what I need - I shall be looking for some.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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GC Gas Check