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Thread: Where are the Primers and Powder?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockrat View Post
    9 mm ammo here has dropped to around $20 a box.

    Some Powder, no primers
    Stopped at a pawn shop while waiting on a dentist appointment the other day. They had more ammo than I have seen in a long time. Looked at the price of 9mm - $45 for 50. No wonder they had so much ammo. I made a comment of their ammo appears to be priced at around a buck a round. Basically got a yea, oh well.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbank View Post
    Latest pistol from China is there 9MM pistol used by their army. Sells for $270Cdn or $208US. DA/SA polymer frame decocker model. Looks like a well made pistol. At that price I may pick one up just for the heck of it.
    https://www.gotenda.com/product/nori...2020-new-model
    Is that Norico CF98 a single or double stack? The description says:
    Upgraded Single stack magazine (2010 old version is a double stack)
    The ad pictures a double stack magazine.
    Although it is polymer it’s not a bad looking pistol. My personal aversion to all products originating in China not withstanding.

  3. #63
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmi48219 View Post
    Is that Norico CF98 a single or double stack? The description says:


    The ad pictures a double stack magazine.
    Although it is polymer it’s not a bad looking pistol. My personal aversion to all products originating in China not withstanding.
    You know as much as I do. I will phone them next week and see if IU can get more info on the pistols. At the price they are selling for they might be worth picking up for a truck gun. My biggest issue with the Chinese pistols is I can't use them in competitions in the US. I have a Norinco 1911. The only "Chinese" parts are the frame, slide and firing pin. The rest off the gun is loaded up with custom parts from the US. C'est la vie,

    Take Care

    Bob
    Last edited by robertbank; 10-13-2021 at 01:30 PM.
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbank View Post
    At the price they are selling for they might be worth picking up for a trick gun. My biggesdt issue with the Chinese pistols is I can't use them in competitions in the US. Bob
    For that price they could put them in 5 gallon survival food kits. Most Chinese pistols I’ve seen look like they were based on 1932 designs, that one actually looks pretty modern.
    How much red tape is involved when you cross the US-Canadian border with your pistols for competition?

  5. #65
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    We get this gun anlong with their 1911 FS and Commander size. Both have great slides and frames and spring steel ejectors and great firing pins. The rest of the pistol is rough. They make great base guns if you want to fully build a custom gun. Super tough steel frames and slides/

    As far as going to and from the US it really is a simple process IF you do the paper work first. I fill out a ATF Form 6. On the form I list the pistols and ammunition I intend to bring to the US. Best of my knowledge says 5K rds is the maximum number of rounds.. You fax or mail the forms to the ATF. They do background checks on you and either approve or decline your application. The first time I sent in a form it took about two weeks to get back to me by mail. The last time I did one in 2019 I faxed the form in and it was emailed back to me the next day. I think once you are in their system the background check is done quicker.

    When I get to the Border I must have an invitation to the shoot I am going to attend. The US Border folks are courteous to me and professional in every respect. The fastest time I spent at the Border was about 20 seconds. I have been sent to secondary only once or twice. I don't think the officer knew how to handle the forms and it took maybe five minutes of my time and I was on my way. Once I spent about 20 minutes there but that was because the Officer and I spent the time discussing our gun collections. He and I at that time shot the same gun in competitions ie the M&P Pro in 9MM.

    The forms are different but the same exercise is required when you guys come up and compete here. I think you do most of the registration etc at the border. You MUST have an invite to a shoot or a guided hunting reservation. You have the right, under our treey with the US to drive to Alaska with firearms. In those instances you are not allowed to detour and visit in Canada. You must travel directly to Alaska. No side trips. If Canadian Border Services think you are planning to vacation in Canada then just return to the lower 48 you don't get in and could face a one year exclusion order. I find US and Canadian Border folks are very Professional and courteous. They do know their jobs and they don't take to lying very well. LOL

    Take Care

    Bob
    ps If I listed a Made in China firearm on my form it would get crossed out. I know this and I have never tested the system. No sense in poking the bear. I believe when you travel you honour the laws and customs of the country you are visiting. Life is so much easoer when you do that.
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  6. #66
    Boolit Master

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    So you haven’t experienced any issues crossing border either way with pandemic restrictions? Do you have to provide a vaccine passport or proof of a recent negative test?

  7. #67
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmi48219 View Post
    So you haven’t experienced any issues crossing border either way with pandemic restrictions? Do you have to provide a vaccine passport or proof of a recent negative test?
    He asked me about my experiences crossing the border. The border has been closed since last year to Canadians unless of course we fly to of all places .. Florida or any other State.

    Trudeau opened up our land border to US citizens mainly to pacify the Southern Ontario and Quebec tourist industry. He called an election and every vote the bastard can get he is there.

    While I have had two shots I have no desire to travel to the US until more of you get vaccinated. Our hospital situation locally is stable this is not true for Alberta our Provincial neighbour next door. That Province opened up their economy fully over the summer and now are paying the price with historical high hospitalization and deaths due to Covid.

    Working as a Safety Officer in a State or Province where Covid 19 D version is rampant has little appeal. Biden has not opened the Northern Border to land travel and I would be surprised if he will any time soon. Governors from four border States have asked him to open the border up but I fear it will fall ond deaf ears.

    79% of our eligible population (12 years old & over)are fully vaccinated and 85% have had one does as of September 11. This compares to 94% of the US population with one does and 55% with two does.

    Take Care

    Bob
    ps Americans can enter Canada with evidence of two does and a clean Covid test within I believe 72 hours. Personally I would stay home if I were you. Why risk getting Covid.
    Last edited by robertbank; 09-19-2021 at 09:53 PM.
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  8. #68
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  9. #69
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    This excerpt explains the ammo side of the ban:

    Link for full article below.

    “As a background, ammunition from overseas has to be approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) for import, usually on what’s called a Form 6. Typically valid for 2 years, this enables US businesses to import ammunition legally. From countries that we’re friends with, like most European ones, Brazil, Mexico, South Korea, and so on, it’s a rubber-stamp affair with only routine scrutiny of the paperwork.
    Russia, of course, is a different story. Prior to the current situation, there were already sanctions and embargoes on Russian munitions, but not as far-reaching as this. Specific companies were subject to disapproval, but not the entire nation. So yes, there’s no specific workaround this time like just asking another plant to produce the ammo.
    However, existing permits for import will be honored, for now. For example, MKS Supply, the importer of Barnaul, probably has an existing permit to import X amount of ammunition from the Barnaul factory in Russia. That’s actually how it works, the Form 6 has to be for specifics. The importer negotiates with the factory to buy say 3 million rounds of 123gr 7.62x39mm FMJ, and the Form 6 only covers the importation of that amount. It’s why you would see a flood of inventory, then it would taper off - the importer has to place another order and apply for another permit to import that order.
    The permit has an expiration, either when the order is fulfilled - if you look at a Form 6 there’s plenty of space to document what you are importing - or when the date, 2 years after approval, hits.
    So, the supply won’t be completely tapped out yet. I’m not privy to specific numbers, but I can guarantee importers of Russian ammo still have some unfulfilled and approved orders left in the pipeline.
    But, eventually the existing orders will be completed, most likely by this time next year - and then the ban is “real”.
    That gives us a little time to maneuver though.”
    https://regularguyguns.com/2021/08/2...sian-Ammo-Ban/

  10. #70
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    with all the demand and high prices now I think its amazing that we have not seen some Chinese knock offs being pumped into the country the way they do with just about everything else including all kinds of knock offs of legal drugs and illegal drugs and precursors.

  11. #71
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    How many shooters reload ammunition? I'd bet no more than 1% of long time gun owners, and, in normal times, none of first timers. And most shooters buy ammo to replace what they've shot, not to stockpile.

    If just one percent of non reloaders decided that, in these uncertain times, they wanted to start rolling their own, that could about double demand for reloading components. Add to that panic buying, hoarding and the related scalping of ammo and components related to political and social uncertainty, increased demand from the 7 million new gun owners last year, diversion of components to the ready made ammo market, COVID related supply chain issues, and it's no wonder ammo and components, as well as reloading equipment (what's the wait on Dillon dies up to now, over a year?) are unobtainium.
    Last edited by kevin c; 09-28-2021 at 04:22 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin c View Post
    How many shooters reload ammunition? I'd bet no more than 1% of long time gun owners, and, in normal times, none of first timers. And most shooters buy ammo to replace what they've shot, not to stockpile.

    If just one percent of non reloaders decided that, in these uncertain times, they wanted to start rolling their own, that could about double demand for reloading components. Add to that panic buying, hoarding and the related scalping of ammo and components related to political and social uncertainty, increased demand from the 7 million new gun owners last year, diversion of components to the ready made ammo market, COVID related supply chain issues, and it's no wonder ammo and components, as well as reloading equipment (what's the wait on Dillon dies up to now, over a year?) are unobtainium.
    You just hit the nail on the head.

    It's such a small market that any dramatic increase in demand just swamps the supply chain.
    NRA Benefactor.

  13. #73
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Bmi48219 I speed read the fill article and a lot of the article you quote made no sense to me. First the Biden Ban was said to take effect Sept. 2121. If we assume this is true then the Biden ban has little to do with the present primer and ammo shortages. The shortages have bee around for about a year now. In addition the ATF Form 6 is a form used to allow foreigners such as myself to temporarily import my guns and ammunition into the US. The Form expires one year from date of issue. Unless there is another Form 6 floating around .... Here is a link to the Form. The world is not always defined by by politics and the present ammo shortage has more to do with the effect of Covid then whomever you folks elect in the White House.

    https://www.pdffiller.com/jsfiller-d...74f2efe23f16c1

    I have spoken to wholesalers up here who regularly import primers, powders and ammunition from Europe and Asia. The common denominator is merchandise "it arrives when it arrives". What you and I would refer to as "Russian? primers and ammunition has come from the Ukraine or at least that is what is stamped on the boxed. Maybe? Maybe not?

    I reread the article and it appears to me to be one that is not particularly researched and directed at the evil "Biden Administration" as opposed to being a reference point to explain the loss of "foreign" primers and ammunition.

    I can only really speak to our situation up here. Primers and ammunition from former Iron Curtain countries seems to come in fits and starts. As recent as a month ago I bought Primers that were made in Bosnia of all places. They were in expensive, around $$4.90Cdn. They work but anywhere from 25% to 50% of them require the leverage of a single stage press to fully seat them. That is the truth. I would have a hard time convincing myself to buy them again if they ever become available.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Last edited by robertbank; 10-13-2021 at 01:33 PM.
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  14. #74
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    A lot of stuff from overseas is waiting offshore to be unloaded. I am waiting for a piece for my wood lathe from Record - a British company, and it is somewhere off shore waiting to be unloaded. It was shipped from Britan more than a month ago. Still haven't heard if it is here in the country yet and neigher has Highland Woodworking in Atlanta, where it was to be shipped. No wonder things from overseas come in fits and starts - COVID D has interfered with the landing of ships all over the country.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  15. #75
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    I was at a Scheel’s today. ALL KINDS of firearms available at pretty decent prices. Excellent prices on some, even. Seems they’re a useless object with no demand for them, if folks can’t find the fodder to feed them.

    8mmFan

  16. #76
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    i was at a lgs and i was talking to the owner and i found out that they got 60lbs of various powders from 300lbs ordered. at another lgs, they have primers, 100 ct/$8.99 cci and winchester lrp, only 1 per customer. $33/ lb of goex/alliant/hodgdon/imr various powders.

    gouge much?
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    To the Republic of these United States of America, I am strong and free. I will never surrender to godless communist socialism. Pray to images in your demented mind, that you will have mercy, because i will not.

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  17. #77
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    I spoke to my retailer who sold two of us the 10,000 Bosnian primers. He told me Win and CCI are not taking orders for primers right now. They require existing production to keep up demand for factory ammunition plants. No indication when either will be taking retail orders again. We may be waiting awhile.

    Perspnally I now have enough primers for the next 18 minths if I cut back abit on the life fire practice.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Last edited by robertbank; 10-08-2021 at 06:29 PM.
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbank View Post
    I spoke to my retailer who sold two of us the 10,000 Bosnian primers................

    Take Care

    Bob
    Bob:

    Would you mind sharing whom your supplier is?

    Rick
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  19. #79
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Reliable Gun out of Vancouver, BC 604 874 4710

    Their prices are a bit on the high side for most things. They had those Bosnia Herquvernia (SP) Primers labled CamPro. We have found they are difficult if not impossible to fully seat with a Dillon 550B and a Square Deal. I inspect primer depth at Station 2 of the 550. If the primer is not fully seated I put the case aside and run the next case. When I have completed 100 rds I take the semi primed cases over to my Rockchucker and fully seat the primers. It tends to be a slow the loading down alright and if there wereother primers available I would not have bought more. There are not, so you do what you gotta do. I am hopping S&B primers from France and the Tula's via the Ukraine and the Finish brand get imported into Canada by the spring. I don't think IVI out of Montreal makes their own primers. I get our market is to small to sustain a Canadian primer factory but tax incentives might draw one of the Europeans to make a move here. The US manufacturers are not likely to be interested as they are ahving a difficult time suppling their Domestic market. Things will get back to normal once the Republicans gain either the House or Senate in '22. Until then, I would not count on the US suppliers feeding the Canadian market with primers.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbank View Post
    I spoke to my retailer who sold two of us the 10,000 Bosnian primers. He told me Win and CCI are not taking orders for primers right now. They require existing production to keep up demand for factory ammunition plants. No indication when either will be taking retail orders again. We may be waiting awhile.

    Perspnally I now have enough primers for the next 18 minths if I cut back abit on the life fire practice.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Always take gun store scuttlebutt with a LARGE dose of reality. The truth is that both Winchester and CCI are shipping primers on an almost daily basis.

    I've seen both for sale in the past week or two.
    NRA Benefactor.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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