@Larry Gibson, not only the volume thing, your example shows another issue in muzzleloader powders. 777 and normal black powder like Goex or Swiss are completely different in how they burn and how much pressure they generate. I'm only theorizing that the heavier loads shoot better with a maxiball because it makes it expand to the bore correctly, where a lighter load doesn't. 777 generally produces higher pressure than blackpowder, so a smaller volume of powder might produce the same effect.
All of my shooting was with Goex black powder.
I finally got out and shot my 1995 Traditions Pioneer two days ago. I was using some pure lead lee REAL 320 grain boolits. I don’t have the maxi balls. I tried some lube I made for cast on them. I tried Pyrodex RS in charges of 50,60,65,70,80,90,95,100, and 110 along with a TC lubed wad in between the boolit and powder charge. The best group came from 60 grains which was 2 3/4” at 50 yards. I then tried non lubed 320 grain REAL boolits that I PC’d in the two best grouping charges. Sixty grains shrunk to 2 1/4” and I tried 90 grain which stayed around the 3/4” range. I also tried lubed REALs again without a TC lube wad and groups opened up. The gun shoots to the left and I forgot to bring tools and my homemade sight pushing tool. This was my first time shooting it and I put a good 70 plus rounds through the gun. The things I noticed was the 10 pound plus trigger and the front buckhorn sight was a good 6” or more wide at 50 yards. It was a challenge to say the least to try and float 1” and 2” circle bullseyes half way up on my front sight post at 50 yards. I’m sure if I had a peep sight it would help quite a bit. Yesterday i has some time to reflect on the issues. I worked my trigger down to a consistent 30 to 32 ounces on every pull. The adjustment screw was seized in place and snapped off so I worked the angle of the Sears. After about 5 times of stoning, filing, polishing, and testing it was braking at 2 pounds or just a hair under. Once I finally got a lighter pull the trigger was getting caught on the half cock and moving slow along with binding. I had to take a little off the tip fo the half cock catch along with stoning and polishing all the trigger components. I also found the action was binding in the wood stock after adjustments. After a dozens of times of dry firing and greasing the inside of the hammer it worked out the binding. I had sawdust on the trigger every couple of firings till it starting working flawlessly again. I would have been happy at just a little under 3 pounds but I’m not complaining. I also noticesd the “delay” in the firing of the cap VS the “bang” of the powder igniting and firing. I did have two times the cap would fire but the gun would not. I put a little powder down the nipple and it fired off both times. I was even cleaning between every shot. When I got home I found a good 10 or more caps flattened and stuck under my hammer! Lesson learned to check under my hammer after every firing.
Here’s my best 50 yard group from the other day before I adjusted the trigger.
Now I need to figure out a more accurate sighting system. In the next couple of days I’ll have to get out and zero my gun at 50 yards and test the new trigger adjustment to see if the lighter pull tightens my groups up.
I’ll have to get my hands on some TC maxi balls to try and see if my gun likes them better than the REALs.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-16-2021 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Spelling
Tripplebeards, I don't know why I saw the 320 gr and thought that was a 54 caliber. I do have a 50 caliber Maxiball mold that I use. I'd be glad to send you some the next run I do. I lube them with 50/50 beeswax and olive oil, and only the bottom groove. They shoot really well.
Have you been able to stop the package thefts? I had to get a PO Box here...
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I have everything shipped to my Pop’s house across town after that fiasco. It’s only a 10/15 minute drive to grab my mail from him now…but it’s always there. Those boolits never did surface that you sent. I still get my neighbor’s mail on a weekly basis at my house. I blame the local post office juggling route carriers every other day in my neighborhood. They don’t do that at my Pop’s address cross town.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-16-2021 at 08:21 PM.
I got up early and PCd a few of the 320 grain REALs this morning and headed to the range. I had some issues with the ignition system that I start a thread with questions on but here is a 4 shot,50 yard group! My load shot a 3” group at 75 yards and dropped 4”.
50 yards…. (the little holes are from someone else shooting a 22lr)
And the 75 yard group…
I used 60 grains of Pyrodex RS, a TC bore button, and no lube. I had zero leading. I found that if I tried to clean my barrel I had fliers every shot. If I didn’t clean between firings I stacked my boolits! The PC wasn’t pretty. I tumbled and left it thick.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-18-2021 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Spelling
Tripplebeards, what was the fouling like with no lube?
When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.
Will the Lyman 4500 lube/sizer work? What top punch to get? Will Lyman Black Powder Gold Lubricant work or is there a way to load up Bore butter?
I had a lot less fouling and mess with the non lubed PC boolit than I did with the lubed boolit… and zero leading. My gun is a lot more accurate with PC only as well. It’s nice not to have to use messy lube. I talked to a guy I got started in casting a few years ago that PCs on REAL boolits. He said no leading and great accuracy with 90 grain powder charges. My gun’s group opens up a little more with 90 grain charges. I’ll have to try a different powder eventually…when I run out of my only bottle of RS…which I’m close to doing so. I did use a lubed TC bore button between my powder charge and boolit. They are now discontinued so I will have to find something similar to use when I run out of them.
Last edited by Tripplebeards; 09-20-2021 at 09:55 AM.
I woulda never guessed. BP substitute powder I assume??
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Pyrodex RS. They had a bottle at Walmart today for $26 but no #11 caps. No one in town has any #11's. Guess I'm done testing till I find some caps.
For the past few years I've been buying my caps along with my primers, but before that, I used to find caps in the oddest places. I'm sure everyone looks to the gun stores. I used to find good deals at Walmart. There was even a bait store that sold a few guns, as in had about 6 on the shelf, some ammo, and maybe 777 pellets for muzzleloaders, but not much else. They also had percussion caps for some reason. I've come across quite a few rural gas stations that sold bait, and also had percussion caps.
Trippel...., Take a look at RMC/Ox Yoke products for lubed wads: https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/ox-yok...ds-pretreated/
And I just have to put in my oar about Maxi-Balls v. REAL's. To wit, I don't think there's an intrinsic difference in accuracy between the two. However, just like CF cast bullets, how well they fit your bore is a major factor in accuracy. If they start easily with no resistance, they're likely too small. However, if you need a bit of muscle to start them [in the muzzle], you will likely have an accurate bullet. If you don't already cast them, I've found the T/C anodized aluminum moulds to be more uniform (diameter) than the more expensive Lyman "iron" ones. Lastly, Lee REAL moulds can be beagled or paper patched, or as you've found, powder coated for better fit and less mess when loading.
Hope this helps,
Paul
Last edited by Maven; 09-20-2021 at 02:42 PM.
Maven, those look just like the TC wad....thanks!
I do cast the Lee's. I make sure to leave a heavy PC powder build up when tumbling like on the blue ones above before baking. Don't care if it looks uneven as long as I get a thick coat to build up the diameter and protect from leading. They definitely start harder than a thin coat of PC or non PC with lube.
Sixgun and Trippel, Thanks! Btw, I was shooting my cap and ball revolver today and using .45cal. wads. They really work well to control bore fouling even with the Pyrodex P I was using (mostly to use it up!).
That's probably the biggest reason they shoot better. The REALs are so undersized as it is, I don't understand how anyone got them to shoot. All the ones I tried I could start with my thumb, then the weight of the ram rod would send them down. They all measured .517" on the top band, but that's just a little razors edge of a driving band. If the entire bullet was a good .010" bigger, they would probably shoot quite well.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |