1866 Gras value

[abunaitoo]

Have one for sale here.
$450
Suppose to be in good condition.
Dies are expensive.
Hard to tell without pictures, but......
Is this a good price?????

[.455 Webley]

If it's a nice one then I would say yes. All depends on condition. Btw 1866 was the chaspot needle fire rifle. 66/74 is the Gras conversion. 74 is the built from the start Gras. An M-80 on the side indicates a change in the receiver to vent gas.

As for dies modified Lee 43 mauser dies work.

Also .45 acp can be used to neck size with success depending on brass thickness and chamber dimensions..

[smithnframe]

Like you said………..hard to tell without pictures!

[ascast]

yes to all above watch the converted models as you may find a chamber that is a lot smaller than bore dia ( not groove). I have made brass and dies-maybe can help you out there. Brass is easy to make from 348,. Its short but works fine. They have a lelt hand twist so recoil is weird. Bore is everything to me. Mine was given to me as the stock was badly cracked up front. I found bands and new stock over time. Its a fun gun. You might fudge the dies issue, but really a chamber cast will tell the whole story. There seems to be some variations in dimensions. I'm sure we can get you up and shooting.

[ascast]

ps The one I have will shoot and hit rams ( 600 yds ) with about 30-40% hit rate. That is with no fine tuning of brass, bullets and issue sights. Sights had toothpicks, etc. poked in here and there to regulate POI. IMR 4759 was used. I also used Unique.

[Bigslug]

$450 seems reasonable enough. Things to consider:

It's a simple, quality rifle, but folks that want one are probably fairly thin on the ground. You'll probably be spending more than that on molds, dies, etc..., just to get it shooting. As such, nobody's gonna pick up a Gras on impulse like they would a a common caliber hunting rifle. Being on a tiny island, you probably already know everyone local that might want it.

[Thin Man]

About 7 years ago a friend came to me with his 1877 Gras needing help creating ammo for it. He had owned the rifle since he was a teen age kid working in a gas station. A customer came to the lot and had a desperate need for gas but no money. He offered the rifle in trade for a tank of gas. The trade was made and my friend had owned the rifle all these years without being able to fire it.

I got lucky and found a group buy (not on this site) for Lee custom die sets in the 11x59mmR caliber for $58 per set, bought 30 pieces of brass from Buffalo Arms already formed from 50-110 Winchester (their rims are undersize but they lock into the chamber well and extraction is not difficult), bought boolits cast to the .447" diameter lubed with smokeless lube rather than black powder lube (rifle owner's choice). Powder selection followed several vintage articles that all agreed to use IMR4198 powder (or IMR3031 if the other is not available). Search cast boolit loading data for the Trapdoor rifles, match the boolit weight in 45/70, and use ONLY the minimum starting load charge weight under the boolit. The rifle owner is thrilled with these loads. Since completing this workup I found and bought a mold branded only "11" which throws conventional boolits measuring .447" and weighing a scant 300 grains. The rifle owner took the dies and spare brass with him but I found the mold well after the project was complete. Who knows if or when I may need it again.

[abunaitoo]

Wish I had gotten a set of the Lee dies.
They don't have any, and are not planing to make another run soon.

[john.k]

The theory with LH twist is the bullet tends to tip down following the trajectory at long range.....this reduces drag resulting from a bullet flying horizontal ,but falling at considerable velocity at long range......In theory penetration is also improved.