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Thread: What is this in my alloy?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    What is this in my alloy?

    This is very grainy material and about half the weight of a piece of lead the same size. Is this zinc?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails lead trash.jpg  

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Did it look lumpy and frothy on top of the melt before you ladled it out?

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    Sure sounds like it.

    If ya raise the heat up slowly, the Lead will melt, then the Zinc will float up since it melts at a higher temp.
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  4. #4
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    It was lumpy and I noticed it rising to the top when the pot was cooling down. It was like this stuff was a thick layer on top of the lead as it was cooling

  5. #5
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    Lead melts at a lower temp., so it might still be Zinc- since it will solidify sooner, and (possibly) float on top of the molten Lead.

    I'd dig around in the 'stickies'. This is a issue that has come up all too frequently, and should be well covered already.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
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  6. #6
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    Put a drop or two of muriatic acid on it. If it's zinc, it will bubble up. The resulting gas is harmful, so make sure you don't breathe it. That's the main reason to use one or two drops of the acid, to minimize the production of gas

  7. #7
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    Test it with muriatic acid, if it bubbles it's zinc.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Zinc, antimony and copper may float at lower temperatures. Just as the alloy starts to melt.

    I would not treat it as scrap.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastingFool View Post
    Put a drop or two of muriatic acid on it. If it's zinc, it will bubble up. The resulting gas is harmful, so make sure you don't breathe it. That's the main reason to use one or two drops of the acid, to minimize the production of gas
    The gas released is hydrogen and is flammable but not harmful.
    H2SO4 + Zn = H2 + ZnSO4

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    Say "HELLO ZINC!" That sure sounds like what you have. What was the source of the stuff you melted? If tire weights, you did a poor job of sorting B4 melting. Like said, test with acid to see if any reaction. (You can even take a couple drops of battery acid out of your car to use if you do not have sulfuric (H2SO4) or hydrochloric (HCl) acid around. I have gallons of HCl around, as that is pool treatment acid. Pb, Sn, and Sb will not react to the acid. Zn will fume and bubble up. Concentrated HCl fumes on it's own and do NOT breathe the yellow vapors that come off it!

    I would scrape it off and keep for later analysis or disposal.

    banger

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondiego View Post
    The gas released is hydrogen and is flammable but not harmful.
    H2SO4 + Zn = H2 + ZnSO4
    I stand corrected. Thanks!

  12. #12
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    make your own muriatic acid

    Ditto on testing with muriatic acid, if for no other reason than setting your worries to rest.

    If you don't have any or do not wish to be storing a quart/gallon of corrosive muriatic acid around your home or anywhere near your reloading equipment, you can easily make a tiny batch with citric acid, table salt and tap water. I mixed up some a couple weeks ago just to validate it does in fact work. It is not so strong as to boil n bubble, but after 30 seconds to a minute upon close examination you can see the tiny bubbles coming up through the drop of acid.

    the mix ratio is 1/4 tsp of citric acid (I used Lemi-Shine), 1/4 tsp of table salt and 2 tsp of hot tap water. Mix until the citric acid and salt is dissolved and you are good to go. Just put a drop on your suspect metal and watch for a reaction. The solution seems pretty weak and I question whether it could identify small amounts of zinc dissolved in an alloy, but it works on known zinc. Deposal of this tiny amount can be accomplish with a good volume of flushed water or neutralized with some baking soda.

    I found this on on the web somewhere very recently (maybe even here on castboolits), but don't remember where and haven't been able to find it again.
    Last edited by oley55; 09-01-2021 at 05:37 PM.
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Did you end up with clean alloy after you removed the stuff pictured in the original post?

  14. #14
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    Found on the net:


    Both Sodium Chloride and Citric acid are white crystalline solids. NaCl is a neutral ionic compound that completely dissociates into Na+ and Cl- ions when dissolved in a polar solvent such as water. Citric acid is an organic compound, a tricarboxylic acid (three COOH groups) that partially ioinizes to a H+ and (Citrate)- ions in equilibrium with the un-ionized citric acid when dissolved in water.

    The two substances can be MIXED together to form a mixture. However, they do not chemically react with each other.

    NaCl + Citric Acid <==> Citric Acid + NaCl.

    This mixture can be used as a saline buffer for biochemical reactions. However, there is no new chemical compounds formed when you mix NaCl with Citric Acid (for example, HCl and Sodium Citrate are NOT formed).

    Best to use the real thing. And store it outside NOT inside around anything you value! It does fume thru many plastics, so keep it in a GLASS container.

    The internet actually IS your friend, if you use it properly and have safeguards in place.

  15. #15
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    as soon as I complete my introductory chemical-engineering 101 course I'll try to finger out those web search results....
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    Some brands of toilet bowl cleaner are simply dilute Hydrochloric acid.

    Wayne
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
    Ditto on testing with muriatic acid, if for no other reason than setting your worries to rest.

    If you don't have any or do not wish to be storing a quart/gallon of corrosive muriatic acid around your home or anywhere near your reloading equipment, you can easily make a tiny batch with citric acid, table salt and tap water. I mixed up some a couple weeks ago just to validate it does in fact work. It is not so strong as to boil n bubble, but after 30 seconds to a minute upon close examination you can see the tiny bubbles coming up through the drop of acid.

    the mix ratio is 1/4 tsp of citric acid (I used Lemi-Shine), 1/4 tsp of table salt and 2 tsp of hot tap water. Mix until the citric acid and salt is dissolved and you are good to go. Just put a drop on your suspect metal and watch for a reaction. The solution seems pretty weak and I question whether it could identify small amounts of zinc dissolved in an alloy, but it works on known zinc. Deposal of this tiny amount can be accomplish with a good volume of flushed water or neutralized with some baking soda.

    I found this on on the web somewhere very recently (maybe even here on castboolits), but don't remember where and haven't been able to find it again.
    Home Depot sells 30% vinegar that should work too.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid, or HCl. H2SO4 is sulfuric acid. I believe both produce hydrogen gas on contact with metallic zinc.

    When processing antimonial lead, if the melt gets too hot I'll get a skin of oxides on the surface that looks like that when skimmed out.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastingFool View Post
    I stand corrected. Thanks!
    Actually the fumes from either hydrochloric acid or sulfuric acid are toxic and can cause bad burns so it is a good idea to not breathe any fumes!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRideout View Post
    Some brands of toilet bowl cleaner are simply dilute Hydrochloric acid.

    Wayne
    I tried some Lime Away Bowl cleaner just for grins and can report virtually undetectable reactions on a zinc ingot. I'll assume it is too diluted for our purposes.
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


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